Upgrade (AM4) or new AM5 build?

[m_c]

I'm needing to upgrade to Win11 (Autodesk Fusion Win10 support ends soon), but since getting a new laptop (Ryzen 9955HX3D/5070Ti/32GB), the desktop is feeling a bit slow, and I'm stuck procrastinating over what to do
I have done the whole using the laptop with external monitors/keyboard/mouse in the past, but I much prefer a separate desktop.

Spec for the current desktop is -
Asus ROG Strix X570-F Gaming (AMD AM4) DDR4 X570 Chipset
AMD Ryzen 5 3600 Six Core 4.2GHz (Socket AM4) Processor -
Asus GeForce GTX 1660 SUPER Phoenix OC 6144MB GDDR6
Team Group 8Pack Edition 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 PC4-28800C16 3600MHz Dual Channel Kit
Seagate Barracuda 510 1TB PCIe NVMe M.2 Solid State Drive
Seasonic Focus GX-750 750W 80+ Gold Modular Power Supply

I have considered putting a new processor in (probably a 5900X since it's still available to pre-order, whilst the 5950X is now out of stock with no pre-order), along with a new graphics card, however the 5900X still isn't as powerful as the laptop, so I feel a processor upgrade probably isn't value for money.

However the cost of a new mobo, processor, and 32GB of memory is pushing the budget somewhat, even before I consider adding a new graphics card to the mix.

So I'm considering a new graphics card (probably something like a 5060/Ti), along with a new NVMe drive with a fresh install of Win 11, or should I just bite the bullet and go AM5?

Anybody care to suggest what direction I should procrastinate more in?

 

[Tetras]

but since getting a new laptop (Ryzen 9955HX3D/5070Ti/32GB), the desktop is feeling a bit slow

Slow at what exactly? Autodesk?

however the 5900X still isn't as powerful as the laptop, so I feel a processor upgrade probably isn't value for money.

If what you're after is more multithreading performance then I'd say it is value for money. A 5900X/5900XT(16 core)/5950X are all hugely faster than the 3600 in multithreading and a decent uplift in single thread too.

For multithreading, the 12 core 5900X is roughly equivalent to a 7700X on AM4, so these things are not that slow.

At least, they're fast enough that with the high price of RAM switching platforms to an entry level AM5 CPU for multithreading makes little to no sense.

There's only two reasons I'd switch: 1. you can find a great deal on a memory upgrade, or 2. you want more performance than the top-end AM4 CPUs (like a 9950X).

So I'm considering a new graphics card (probably something like a 5060/Ti), along with a new NVMe drive with a fresh install of Win 11, or should I just bite the bullet and go AM5?

To what end? Games? If so, what games/resolution?

 

[Grimley]

If it were me = CPU + GPU upgrade. I upgraded to AM5 5 months ago, I'm glad I did back then, as I wouldn't have done now due to the bonkers DDR5 price increase. I have another AM5 Motherboard going spare to upgrade the backup rig, that's now on hold. Based on past hardware shortages, I'd wait another year/18 months.

 

[m_c]

Slow at what exactly? Autodesk?

Just in general.
I suspect a fresh install would probably improve things, but I wouldn't mind a bit of an upgrade.

If what you're after is more multithreading performance then I'd say it is value for money. A 5900X/5900XT(16 core)/5950X are all hugely faster than the 3600 in multithreading and a decent uplift in single thread too.

For multithreading, the 12 core 5900X is roughly equivalent to a 7700X on AM4, so these things are not that slow.

At least, they're fast enough that with the high price of RAM switching platforms to an entry level AM5 CPU for multithreading makes little to no sense.

There's only two reasons I'd switch: 1. you can find a great deal on a memory upgrade, or 2. you want more performance than the top-end AM4 CPUs (like a 9950X).


To what end? Games? If so, what games/resolution?

If it were me = CPU + GPU upgrade. I upgraded to AM5 5 months ago, I'm glad I did back then, as I wouldn't have done now due to the bonkers DDR5 price increase. I have another AM5 Motherboard going spare to upgrade the backup rig, that's now on hold. Based on past hardware shortages, I'd wait another year/18 months.

It's the price of memory that's kind of putting me of just now.
I'm kind of torn by spending £300 on a CPU that maxes performance, which could be £300 towards an AM5 setup which would allow future upgrades, but then I'm quite lazy at that anyway. The 3600 was only meant to be a temporary thing, until I could be bothered installing a water cooler (which I eventually bought 6 months ago, but has been sat beside my desk since, as I've procrastinated over upgrade options! :/ ).

GPU upgrade is more because I occasionally have issues with one monitor not working, plus I wouldn't mind adding a third output.

The sensible option is probably pre-order a 5900X (or wait to see if the 5950X comes back in stock at a sensible price), get a new GPU (any suggestions in the £3-500 range?), and do a fresh install on a new NVMe drive.

 

[Tetras]

Just in general.
I suspect a fresh install would probably improve things, but I wouldn't mind a bit of an upgrade.

Can you be more specific about your experience of slowness and monitor your usage with task manager when it is happening?

The reason I'm being anal about it, is because I don't like recommending an upgrade to anything without knowing why it is too slow. Otherwise it can be throwing money at the wrong problem (or even a problem that doesn't exist in hardware).

Sure, you could just replace the whole lot, but that's a "using a sledgehammer to crack a nut" scenario and if the problem is actually software (like the bloated install you suggested) then it will eventually reoccur.

The same thing with wanting an upgrade, an upgrade to what end? For example: without knowing why you're having issues with the second monitor, it could just reproduce the same problem, but with a £500 lighter wallet

Similarly, it is true that your SSD is quite old, but there's often little noticeable difference between a SATA and PCI-E drive for desktop use and even smaller between PCI-E versions. It can feel snappier in some circumstances, but it depends what you're doing with it.

I'm kind of torn by spending £300 on a CPU that maxes performance, which could be £300 towards an AM5 setup which would allow future upgrades

If you're not doing a lot of multithreading, then a 5900X is a waste of money anyway, because those 12 cores are going to be sitting idle most of the time.

 

[m_c]

Can you be more specific about your experience of slowness and monitor your usage with task manager when it is happening?

The reason I'm being anal about it, is because I don't like recommending an upgrade to anything without knowing why it is too slow. Otherwise it can be throwing money at the wrong problem (or even a problem that doesn't exist in hardware).

Sure, you could just replace the whole lot, but that's a "using a sledgehammer to crack a nut" scenario and if the problem is actually software (like the bloated install you suggested) then it will eventually reoccur.

The same thing with wanting an upgrade, an upgrade to what end? For example: without knowing why you're having issues with the second monitor, it could just reproduce the same problem, but with a £500 lighter wallet

Similarly, it is true that your SSD is quite old, but there's often little noticeable difference between a SATA and PCI-E drive for desktop use and even smaller between PCI-E versions. It can feel snappier in some circumstances, but it depends what you're doing with it.


If you're not doing a lot of multithreading, then a 5900X is a waste of money anyway, because those 12 cores are going to be sitting idle most of the time.

I suspect most of the slowness is just general bloat. It's just general slowness when opening apps/folders.
Once programs are loaded, they work OK, but wouldn't mind a bit more speed when doing things like slicing 3D files, although more complex assemblies in Fusion are a bit jittery when moving the view.
The biggest driver is since getting the new laptop, the desktop is noticeably slower at doing most things.

I did just check Task Manager when spinning a more complex Fusion model around, and the GPU is hitting 50-70%, and slicing a big 3D print the CPU hit 75%.
However the jittery model is probably more of an issue, so a GPU upgrade should probably be my main priority, and I can procrastinate more over CPU/AM5 upgrades in the hope prices drop.

As for the monitor problem, every couple of months, one output just fails to work.
Sometimes unplugging the working one, and rebooting fixes it, but sometimes it just won't work for a couple of days, then will seemingly randomly start working again.
My work around is to use a USB-DVI adapter, as I gave up trying to fix the underlying fault. Reinstalling drivers sometimes works, but I reached the point I just live with the issue when it happens, as I couldn't find any definitive cause.

 

[Craig_d1]

So I had a quick look at autodesk fusion and got mixed response. Both favour cpu, but one said it was heavily single threaded while the other said it was multithreaded. AS @Tetras points out, if it's single threaded, there's no point splashing the cash on a 5950X...it just wasted money. the all use the same cores, just clocked slightly differently (5600x 4.6Ghz, 5800x 4.7 Ghz and 5950x 4.9 Ghz), so although the 5950x is clocked slightly higher wont be a massive difference in single threaded performance as they're the same cores. Just remember though a 7600X can boost up to 5.3 Ghz anda 9700x up to 5.5 Ghz, so they will in theory beat a 5950x in sdingle threaded performance (just like in gaming a 7600x beats a 5950x in gaming as single threaded performance is better and most games still heavily single threaded, and also on a par with the 5800x3d for same reason as single thread clock so much higher than the 5800x3d it cancels out the x3d advantage)
if on the other hand you're using asll the cores that's a different matter...why the intel cpu's still win for productivity, all those extra little cores add up.

Id does depend on your answer to above but
I'd maybe look at a 2nd hand 5800x which can boost up to 4.7 GHZ as opposed to the 4.2Ghz of your 3600 (seen one for £85). I just wouldn't want to shell out £300 on an am4 processor now (if that's what you're saying they're going for). Seeing as you're using a sata drive, I'd think maybe getting a m.2 and putting a clean install on there...how full is your drive by the way? as they fill up, they do slow down when getting full

Home home (live work abroad) I'm still running a am4 with a 5800x/3080fe/2tb sn850/32 gb 3600c18. Last time i used it when back home for work was over 6 months ago but still felt snappy then. I fly home in 2 weeks and will wfh up till xmas(but my wife wfh and uses the pc, and hasn't complained to me about slowness..though she's more spreadsheets as does accounts etc)..that timelines prob a bit late for you

also going am5 now doesn't have to be new. expensive but seen someone list 32gb veangence rgb 6000C30 ram for £250 earlier today (ocuk is £350 for 6000c36 new). Also seen a b650 tomahawk for £80 or the tuf gaming wifi for £90 (i'd rather get a pcie5 gpu slot board) but if not gaming etc, guess it doesn't really matter so much, and both those boards are great..then just get the cpu you want...and get a decent ssd..it'll outlast the pc and can be taken to next build etc

 

[Tetras]

I suspect most of the slowness is just general bloat. It's just general slowness when opening apps/folders.

Newer CPUs have higher single thread and can feel a bit snappier (in general), but the downside is that they do this by maintaining and boosting to high clocks, which can be annoying (e.g. causing the fans to constantly ramp up/down).

I usually look at office and browser benchmarks for that kind of thing and it is noticeable that the 9700X often wins those benches, which is a pattern that goes back to the 5800X (and maybe before that), where the single die 8 core is the snappiest.

AMD Ryzen 5 9600X Review - The Best Sub-$300 Gaming CPU

The AMD Ryzen 5 9600X excels in energy efficiency and single-threaded performance. It offers great FPS for gamers and solid application performance. Our review confirms: at just $280, the 9600X is a compelling option against the pricier 7800X3D.

www.techpowerup.com

Once programs are loaded, they work OK, but wouldn't mind a bit more speed when doing things like slicing 3D files, although more complex assemblies in Fusion are a bit jittery when moving the view.
The biggest driver is since getting the new laptop, the desktop is noticeably slower at doing most things.

I did just check Task Manager when spinning a more complex Fusion model around, and the GPU is hitting 50-70%, and slicing a big 3D print the CPU hit 75%.
However the jittery model is probably more of an issue, so a GPU upgrade should probably be my main priority, and I can procrastinate more over CPU/AM5 upgrades in the hope prices drop.

That's a lot higher GPU usage than I expected, but a faster GPU is one of the easiest things to get.

The only snag is, these kind of apps don't necessarily respond to GPU power the way you'd expect. E.g. a GPU that is twice as fast in gaming, might only be 10% faster in a workstation app. Though, the reverse can also be true (not much faster in gaming, way faster in workstation apps).

Not sure where to go, to confirm that for Autodesk. Puget have productivity benchmarks, but not for your app.

NVIDIA 5060 Ti vs. AMD 9060 XT for Content Creation

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5060 Ti vs. AMD Radeon RX 9060 XT: Which offers the best content creation performance?

www.pugetsystems.com

Same story at THG:

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/nvidia-geforce-rtx-5060-ti-16gb-review/8

and here:

and slicing a big 3D print the CPU hit 75%.

That suggests a good chunk of the work is multithreaded.

As for the monitor problem, every couple of months, one output just fails to work.
Sometimes unplugging the working one, and rebooting fixes it, but sometimes it just won't work for a couple of days, then will seemingly randomly start working again.
My work around is to use a USB-DVI adapter, as I gave up trying to fix the underlying fault. Reinstalling drivers sometimes works, but I reached the point I just live with the issue when it happens, as I couldn't find any definitive cause.

Hmm, I wouldn't like to say that a new card will fix that. Note that newer cards and motherboards (Ryzen 7000/9000 CPUs all have integrated graphics, except -F models) have also dumped DVI.

 

[Craig_d1]

@Tetras
interesting on the technotice vid 17:17 times, the 3070 is only 7.6% behind the the 5060ti for 'fusion' and standard overall down 3%. If you're not gaming and doing that then, picking up a 3070 for £200-£225 doesn't seem so bad compared to close to £400 for a 5060ti

 

[Tetras]

@Tetras
interesting on the technotice vid 17:17 times, the 3070 is only 7.6% behind the the 5060ti for 'fusion' and standard overall down 3%. If you're not gaming and doing that then, picking up a 3070 for £200-£225 doesn't seem so bad compared to close to £400 for a 5060ti

Yeah, the grunt of the 3070 is still pretty good, just annoying it didn't get more VRAM.

 

[Dalandius]

You could just backup your files and do a clean install of the OS, can speed things up quite a bit.

 

[m_c]

Fusion (and most CAD in general) can appear to have some quite bizarre resource usage.
Fusion probably pushes more to GPU when working with models, but I'd guess probably pushes more to CPU when generating toolpaths using CAM (not that I've done that much lately, as I've been 3D printing more than machining anything).

At the moment, I'm moving towards a new GPU, but do I spend 3-400 on something 5060, or push to ~600 for 5070.
Regardless I'll be doing a clean install with a new NVMe drive, as the current one is from when I built this 5 years ago.

The limit of my gaming, is usually an occasional evening wasted reminding myself how rubbish I am at Civilization.

 

[Tetras]

At the moment, I'm moving towards a new GPU, but do I spend 3-400 on something 5060, or push to ~600 for 5070.

Ideally, you really want to have app-specific benchmarks, because they often use only specific features of the hardware/architecture and sometimes you see it (for example) where the difference between all cards of the same gen is tiny.

The main consideration for workstation use is usually VRAM (because even if a work is completed slower with a lower-end card, if you run out of VRAM that's just "game over"). Which is why, the 3060 was very popular, with the 12GB of VRAM that even the 4060 and 5060 don't match today. I don't know if or how much that applies to Autodesk (or CAD/design work elsewhere).

The 5070 is a lot more powerful in raw grunt than a 5060 and still a hefty chunk faster than a 5060 Ti 16GB, VRAM aside. 8GB cards are hard to recommend anymore, unless they're very cheap, which applies both to gaming and workstation use.

 

[timmy7tf]

I'm needing to upgrade to Win11 (Autodesk Fusion Win10 support ends soon), but since getting a new laptop (Ryzen 9955HX3D/5070Ti/32GB), the desktop is feeling a bit slow, and I'm stuck procrastinating over what to do
I have done the whole using the laptop with external monitors/keyboard/mouse in the past, but I much prefer a separate desktop.

Spec for the current desktop is -
Asus ROG Strix X570-F Gaming (AMD AM4) DDR4 X570 Chipset
AMD Ryzen 5 3600 Six Core 4.2GHz (Socket AM4) Processor -
Asus GeForce GTX 1660 SUPER Phoenix OC 6144MB GDDR6
Team Group 8Pack Edition 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 PC4-28800C16 3600MHz Dual Channel Kit
Seagate Barracuda 510 1TB PCIe NVMe M.2 Solid State Drive
Seasonic Focus GX-750 750W 80+ Gold Modular Power Supply

I have considered putting a new processor in (probably a 5900X since it's still available to pre-order, whilst the 5950X is now out of stock with no pre-order), along with a new graphics card, however the 5900X still isn't as powerful as the laptop, so I feel a processor upgrade probably isn't value for money.

However the cost of a new mobo, processor, and 32GB of memory is pushing the budget somewhat, even before I consider adding a new graphics card to the mix.
While I was researching, I even ended up reading an overview of Maximum Casino on https://casino-maximum.co.uk/ — strange how hardware decisions always send me down random rabbit holes about platforms, online games, deposits, and reviews. But seriously, a GPU + NVMe upgrade feels like the least painful direction to procrastinate toward.
So I'm considering a new graphics card (probably something like a 5060/Ti), along with a new NVMe drive with a fresh install of Win 11, or should I just bite the bullet and go AM5?

Anybody care to suggest what direction I should procrastinate more in?

Honestly, I get the hesitation — once you’ve felt how ridiculously quick a modern laptop can be, the desktop starts to feel like it’s dragging its feet. I went through something similar and kept circling between a modest upgrade and a full AM5 jump. In the end I realized a fresh Win11 install on a faster NVMe and a mid-range GPU can breathe more life into an AM4 system than I expected, especially when the 5900X still won’t match your 9955HX3D. It’s not perfect, but it buys time without wrecking the budget.

 

[Joxeon]

If you want to upgrade in the cheap you can pick up a used 5800x for around £110 which is quite a big jump over a 3600 in both gaming and MT.

I wouldn’t spend money on an upgrade to AM5 especially with the current ram prices unless you were looking to go with a really high end card.

 

[Thaifood]

fresh insall, a 5800x and a 9070 or a 5070.. would feel amazing.5070's are down to about £500 now

 

[m_c]

I have a 5800X on the way to me, after pre-ordering it last week, which I think is the sensible compromise for now.

I wasn't expecting it so soon, so haven't ordered a new NVMe drive yet.
I want to get all my Christmas shopping done first, as work has gone a bit mental lately (lots of overtime though!), so I probably won't have time to install anything until next year anyway. At which point I'm eyeing up a 5070 to give the graphics a bit of a boost as well.
Plus I'm hoping prices might drop a little after the Christmas rush..

 

[NetMan]

I have a 5800X on the way to me, after pre-ordering it last week, which I think is the sensible compromise for now.

I wasn't expecting it so soon, so haven't ordered a new NVMe drive yet.
I want to get all my Christmas shopping done first, as work has gone a bit mental lately (lots of overtime though!), so I probably won't have time to install anything until next year anyway. At which point I'm eyeing up a 5070 to give the graphics a bit of a boost as well.
Plus I'm hoping prices might drop a little after the Christmas rush..

Hopefully that will help but do you even need a desktop if you have got a nice shiny new laptop, you could have just got a laptop stand or maybe a docking station and used it with a full size keyboard and your monitor.

As for post Xmas prices maybe there wil be a Jan sale but I wouldn't hold my breath on anything contain RAM being cheaper than it is now.

As for the monitor problem, every couple of months, one output just fails to work.
Sometimes unplugging the working one, and rebooting fixes it, but sometimes it just won't work for a couple of days, then will seemingly randomly start working again.
My work around is to use a USB-DVI adapter, as I gave up trying to fix the underlying fault. Reinstalling drivers sometimes works, but I reached the point I just live with the issue when it happens, as I couldn't find any definitive caus

Think I would have wanted to resolve this first it as it would be very annoying it could be cables, the GPU or the monitors.

 

[Roughneck]

Me personaly Id upgrade the AM4, getting a 5950x or 5700x3d some and a 9060xt 16gb and ur good to go

 

[AMDPower]

If its a gaming rig and as others have already mentioned, 5700x3d or 5800x3d and GPU of your choice for your workload. if your workload requires more ram or more CPU cores there is 5950x if you like. I honestly would not bother building a new rig not with these crazy RAM prices and with GPU and SSD prices are set to increase also in the new year. Plus if you need more RAM it should be cheaper to buy more DDR4 ram than DDR5 ram.