Upgrade CDP or go for a hard- drive based solution?

Bes

Bes

Bes

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Hi,

I have a Marantz CD63 and £250.

I can either spend money upgrading it or purchase some kind of hard- disk based player (Squeezebox- type thing?) to link up to my Hi Fi (I have an Audiolab 8000s and a pair of JMLabs 816s floorstanders so far for the rest of my system).... What is the better solution? Would I be better saving more and going for a modified squeezebox- type solution?

Thanks
 
Having looked around, it seems to me I would be looking at spending towards £1,000 on a modified squeezebox to get superb sound quality from a hard drive- based solution :eek: :eek: I think I will just go ahead with the Superclock 3 and some other new bits
 
I get the impression that the standard SB3 is roughly on par with the equivalently priced CDP, meaning that it's not going to be massively different from what you already have.
However, be aware that it WILL change the way you listen. Having several hundred albums to hand via remote control means that "random" play has a whole new meaning. I often start a listening session in random play (now across 509 CDs or about 6000 tracks, all in FLAC format), then wander off listening to whatever seems right to follow on with next. Means that I listen to a lot of music that I've probably not heard in years.

If you're focused on purely improving sound then you have several options that come to mind:
1. Spend a lot of dosh on a better CDP, e.g. Quad 99. These can be bought for around £500 s/h and really are rather good.
2. Buy a good external DAC. Have to say that I'm not convinced by this. The reason why is simple, my experiences are that the quality of the transport makes a lot more difference than we'd expect and that an external DAC would be impeded by an "ok" transport.
3. Upgrade the clock in your existing CDP. If you keep the costs down and go for say a Tentlabs clock at £50, then it would be the best VFM upgrade. Can't say I'd recommend an expensive clock upgrade on the CDP you have.
4. Buy something like an SB+ which is an SB3 on steroids and can easily match a high priced CDP. They've now dripping onto the market at around £700.

Hope that helps.
 
Mr_Sukebe said:
I get the impression that the standard SB3 is roughly on par with the equivalently priced CDP, meaning that it's not going to be massively different from what you already have.
However, be aware that it WILL change the way you listen. Having several hundred albums to hand via remote control means that "random" play has a whole new meaning. I often start a listening session in random play (now across 509 CDs or about 6000 tracks, all in FLAC format), then wander off listening to whatever seems right to follow on with next. Means that I listen to a lot of music that I've probably not heard in years.

If you're focused on purely improving sound then you have several options that come to mind:
1. Spend a lot of dosh on a better CDP, e.g. Quad 99. These can be bought for around £500 s/h and really are rather good.
2. Buy a good external DAC. Have to say that I'm not convinced by this. The reason why is simple, my experiences are that the quality of the transport makes a lot more difference than we'd expect and that an external DAC would be impeded by an "ok" transport.
3. Upgrade the clock in your existing CDP. If you keep the costs down and go for say a Tentlabs clock at £50, then it would be the best VFM upgrade. Can't say I'd recommend an expensive clock upgrade on the CDP you have.
4. Buy something like an SB+ which is an SB3 on steroids and can easily match a high priced CDP. They've now dripping onto the market at around £700.

Hope that helps.
Click to expand...
Why do you say it is not worth spending more than £50 on the CDP I have? From reading several forums, I got the impression it was an excellent base CDP for modding and £150 of bits could make it an extremely capable player?

I only paid £30 for it so replacing it is no biggie. Though I am not sure if I could justify spending £700 on a SB+ at the moment; I think spreading that kind of money between upgrading/ replacing the CDP and replacing and/ or adding to the Audiolab would make more sense and give me more balance- as otherwise I think I would end up with a system comprising of a very capable source and speaker, and only a single amp driving it all.
 
Why do people keep devaluing the importance of the source ???... OK I accept the days of 70% on the source rest on the amp speakers has long gone with digital front ends......but the old adage is still true, rubbish in rubbish out.
If we are to accept other forum members view that the 8000s is a good amp, and the JM's are also capable.... then the system is crying out for a cracking source component. A grands worth of second hand CDP would not be out of place !!! Try a Linn Ikemi....about 1K used or a the older Karik3 for about £400....plus Rega, Roksan and Naim options to your taste.

Any update elsewhere in the system is pointless until the front is max'd out, you have not heard what your current amp and speakers can do yet !!!
 
Bes said:
Why do you say it is not worth spending more than £50 on the CDP I have?
Click to expand...

That's purely my opinion and is based on probably longer term thinking.
If you are looking at a long term solution, then why not start with getting the best transport you can, then start modding it with clocks, power upgrades etc. Assuming you're thinking that way, then starting with a mid-range transport doesn't seem the optimum thing to do. For a better transport, you could consider a Meridian or Teac VRDS unit.

So whilst I belive that £50 certainly would improve you CDP, if you're going to spend more, then I believe there are better ways to spend it.
 
Mr_Sukebe said:
That's purely my opinion and is based on probably longer term thinking.
If you are looking at a long term solution, then why not start with getting the best transport you can, then start modding it with clocks, power upgrades etc. Assuming you're thinking that way, then starting with a mid-range transport doesn't seem the optimum thing to do. For a better transport, you could consider a Meridian or Teac VRDS unit.

So whilst I belive that £50 certainly would improve you CDP, if you're going to spend more, then I believe there are better ways to spend it.
Click to expand...
Good point actually... Obviously I want the best system I can get for the least cash- which I guess means thinking long term. But then if I am going to spend £400+ on a S/H CDP I may as well go the whole hog and get a modified squeeze box solution?
 
If you want to go down the HD based solution, then an SB3 makes a lot of sense, though as mentioned, I don't believe that it would be significantly different in sound to your Marantz.
If you're thinking about modding an SB3, then I'd recommend the SB+, which is not simply and SB3 with a better PSU.

If you're happy to stay with a CDP, then I really can't recommend a Quad 99 enough. The stock one I've heard several times was more than capable of competing with gear that was well above it's price, and they were £1k whilst new.
 
Mr_Sukebe said:
If you want to go down the HD based solution, then an SB3 makes a lot of sense, though as mentioned, I don't believe that it would be significantly different in sound to your Marantz.
If you're thinking about modding an SB3, then I'd recommend the SB+, which is not simply and SB3 with a better PSU.

If you're happy to stay with a CDP, then I really can't recommend a Quad 99 enough. The stock one I've heard several times was more than capable of competing with gear that was well above it's price, and they were £1k whilst new.
Click to expand...
Thanks :D

When I was referring to the SB I was in fact talking about a SB+. I have a serious think about what I want to do here and see what I can find both options priced at.... Decisions, decisions....
 
Bes said:
Thanks :D

When I was referring to the SB I was in fact talking about a SB+. I have a serious think about what I want to do here and see what I can find both options priced at.... Decisions, decisions....
Click to expand...

As mentioned, the Quad 99 can be found for around £500, SB+ for around £700. I've seen both pop up on the Zerogain and Pinkfish forums.
 
9designs2 said:
Why do people keep devaluing the importance of the source ???... OK I accept the days of 70% on the source rest on the amp speakers has long gone with digital front ends......but the old adage is still true, rubbish in rubbish out.
If we are to accept other forum members view that the 8000s is a good amp, and the JM's are also capable.... then the system is crying out for a cracking source component. A grands worth of second hand CDP would not be out of place !!! Try a Linn Ikemi....about 1K used or a the older Karik3 for about £400....plus Rega, Roksan and Naim options to your taste.

Any update elsewhere in the system is pointless until the front is max'd out, you have not heard what your current amp and speakers can do yet !!!
Click to expand...

I think you miss the point that the difference between say a £100 source and a £1000 source is nowhere near the difference between a £100 pair of speakers and a £1000 pair. As i see it the CD player does the simplest job and shouldnt need to cost much. For example most CDP no matter how cheap should be able to pass a full range signal to the amp (20hz-20khz) but very very few speakers can ouput a full range signal (looking at over a grand or DIY).
 
Bes said:
Hi,

I have a Marantz CD63 and £250.

I can either spend money upgrading it or purchase some kind of hard- disk based player (Squeezebox- type thing?) to link up to my Hi Fi (I have an Audiolab 8000s and a pair of JMLabs 816s floorstanders so far for the rest of my system).... What is the better solution? Would I be better saving more and going for a modified squeezebox- type solution?

Thanks
Click to expand...


I would get a Squeezebox and a DAC at the same time. I don't use the CD player anymore. I have same CD player, Audiolab gear and Squeezebox. The SB3 is brilliant.
 
denon said:
I think you miss the point that the difference between say a £100 source and a £1000 source is nowhere near the difference between a £100 pair of speakers and a £1000 pair. As i see it the CD player does the simplest job and shouldnt need to cost much. For example most CDP no matter how cheap should be able to pass a full range signal to the amp (20hz-20khz) but very very few speakers can ouput a full range signal (looking at over a grand or DIY).
Click to expand...

Go on, tell us which £1000 CD players you've compared to £100 units, or are you just passing on heresay?
 
denon said:
I think you miss the point that the difference between say a £100 source and a £1000 source is nowhere near the difference between a £100 pair of speakers and a £1000 pair. As i see it the CD player does the simplest job and shouldnt need to cost much. For example most CDP no matter how cheap should be able to pass a full range signal to the amp (20hz-20khz) but very very few speakers can ouput a full range signal (looking at over a grand or DIY).
Click to expand...

No I think you missed the point..... ;)
I guess your view is based on speculation and not practical experience ?
It a long and old debate, source first or speakers first, but the debate always ends with the speakers first group quoting extreme examples of mismatched systems...
When even in a source first based system a good balance is still recommended.

Please do compare £100 CD players with a £1000 item and report back.....you could also try feeding a 1000 pound speaker with a low grade signal, and see how long you can listen to it for !!!
 
Mr_Sukebe said:
Go on, tell us which £1000 CD players you've compared to £100 units, or are you just passing on heresay?
Click to expand...


9designs2 said:
No I think you missed the point..... ;)
I guess your view is based on speculation and not practical experience ?
It a long and old debate, source first or speakers first, but the debate always ends with the speakers first group quoting extreme examples of mismatched systems...
When even in a source first based system a good balance is still recommended.

Please do compare £100 CD players with a £1000 item and report back.....you could also try feeding a 1000 pound speaker with a low grade signal, and see how long you can listen to it for !!!
Click to expand...

Its just what i think is true and by matching a system i dont think matching the prices is the best thing to do as i believe its cheaper to make a quailty source than a quailty pair of speakers.

Sorry to use a other exampe but people often say pay 1/3 for each component (source, amp and speakers) but i find this like using a 1/3 of your budget on a KB and mouse and a 1/3 on base unit and other 1/3 on the screen.

I have not had the chance to use £1000 components but at the other end i couldnt tell between using a old dvd player and a £200 CDP but could easily tell the difference between a £50 pair of speakers and a £200 pair of speakers.

To the OP from my use of a squeezebox i would say buy a squeezebox to find out if you like the interface etc as most people love or hate it, and if you didnt find the sound up to scratch you can add a DAC or mod the squeezebox easily.
 
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After a lot of thought I think the SB+ is the way forward... I love the idea of just being able to pick and choose what I listen to immediately without messing around with finding the disc I want every 10 minutes and so on... :)

I think for now I will stick with the cd-63, put a new clock in it for relatively little cash, and just keep it as my CDP, as I will still want something I can just stick a CD in if a mate comes around with some discs or whatever.

I also think I really need to finish sorting my cabling/ accoustic situation before I spend on components, as I am not going to fully realise the benefit of any upgrade until I have sorted these.

I suppose after that I will need to sort out the amp, as this will become a major 'bottleneck' with a decent source (SB+) and my 816's (which I think are rather good :) )
 
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BES>
Sounds like a good plan. If you haven't already, get yourself EAC (exact audio copy) for archiving to HD.
One point, I can usually cut a CD to HD in under 10 mins. So when I've had friends over who've brought CDs, we've cut them whilst having a coffee and a blather.
Of course I've had to go back once they've left to delete from my HD and avoid infringing on copyright laws...
 
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