Upgrade centre speaker

[iostream]

Hello, I have the following setup:

KEF Q500 floorstanders for the L and R
KEF Q200C for the centre
KEF Q100 for height, located above the Q500s (as close to the ceiling as I could get them)
Dali Alteco C-1 pair for the rear surrounds
SVS SB3000 subwoofer (saving up for a second one...)

I'm pleased with the sound, but I know that the bulk of what is 'important' (+obviously dialogue) comes out of the centre speaker. I therefore have it in my head that if I buy a bigger centre speaker, I'll have a better time. 1st world problems eh!

I presume I should stick with KEF in order to match sound signature and timbre etc. I was leaning towards a KEF Q600 as it seems to be the same series, but larger.
Any advice before I go for it?

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

A bigger Kef would be my starting point.
Does your amp have the grunt to drive and control what might well be a more demanding speaker?
Is this an Atmos setup and used that way the majority of the time?

 

[hornetstinger]

600 is bigger but yours isn't a slouch either. I'd look into higher class AVR, or maybe dedicated power amplifier for left center and right

Maybe start shifting to R series center? The bigger Q will offer more dynamic range, but higher quality speakers will have better build, driver and sound quality. so upgrade to Reference 11

 

[iostream]

A bigger Kef would be my starting point.
Does your amp have the grunt to drive and control what might well be a more demanding speaker?
Is this an Atmos setup and used that way the majority of the time?

Thanks for the reply. I've got a Denon AVR-X3600H, it should hopefully have plenty of grunt for a larger speaker.
I suppose it is an Atmos setup via the front heights, if that's what you mean. The amp is set to upmix content that doesn't otherwise support the height channels.

The split is probably 70% movies, 30% music.

 

[iostream]

600 is bigger but yours isn't a slouch either. I'd look into higher class AVR, or maybe dedicated power amplifier for left center and right

Maybe start shifting to R series center? The bigger Q will offer more dynamic range, but higher quality speakers will have better build, driver and sound quality. so upgrade to Reference 11

My X3600H had unused surround channel amps, and I was able to use them to bi-amp the left and right speakers, seems to have made a difference. Wonder if doing something similar for the centre would get rid of the upgrade itch...

...and once nursery bills are out of the way in a couple years, I'll consider R series

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

A thought on this, based upon playing around with hifi/av kit for nearly 50 years now.
It sounds (and maybe I'm being presumptuous), that this is a classic case of consumerism, ie. that you've got some cash available, hey why not make an improvement to one of my key hobbies. Maybe that's not yourself, but I could accuse myself of it, hence the concern.

If you were to update the centre, sure, it'll be a bit better, but after a week with it, apart from being able to look smugly at it, you'll probably not remember that you've done it as the change is likely to be pretty marginal and by week 4 you'll take it for granted.

IMO, we all have our preferences on where to blow our hard earned, whether that's fast cars, Swiss watches, mountain biking, PCs, or hifi, and that's also cool.
My suggestion is to focus your attention at what you consider to be of most importance. If that is your home cinema, that's cool, go for it. But it's worth consideration, of whether you'd rather put the cash towards holidays with the family, an season ticket at footy or whatever. If cinema is in your top hit list, then go for it, however I'd like to suggest that looking at marginal improvements is hardly worth your time. Spend your hard earned on a bunch of films that you really rate (CEX is a great place to buy Bluray dirt cheap), or if you really want to up your home cinema, don't muck about with marginal improvements, go big. Noticeable improvements seem to occur when you double the current spend. e.g. current amp cost £1k, assume the next will cost at least £2k. Longer term, it's more cost effective as you end up changing around far less.

If you like that, then look at a decent Atmos AV processor and standalone power amps. Yes, they are a LOT of dosh, but they're now becoming sensibly priced s/h (e.g. some of the Marantz processors) and high end gear tends to last well.

Just my thoughts.

 

[hornetstinger]

A thought on this, based upon playing around with hifi/av kit for nearly 50 years now.
It sounds (and maybe I'm being presumptuous), that this is a classic case of consumerism, ie. that you've got some cash available, hey why not make an improvement to one of my key hobbies. Maybe that's not yourself, but I could accuse myself of it, hence the concern.

If you were to update the centre, sure, it'll be a bit better, but after a week with it, apart from being able to look smugly at it, you'll probably not remember that you've done it as the change is likely to be pretty marginal and by week 4 you'll take it for granted.

IMO, we all have our preferences on where to blow our hard earned, whether that's fast cars, Swiss watches, mountain biking, PCs, or hifi, and that's also cool.
My suggestion is to focus your attention at what you consider to be of most importance. If that is your home cinema, that's cool, go for it. But it's worth consideration, of whether you'd rather put the cash towards holidays with the family, an season ticket at footy or whatever. If cinema is in your top hit list, then go for it, however I'd like to suggest that looking at marginal improvements is hardly worth your time. Spend your hard earned on a bunch of films that you really rate (CEX is a great place to buy Bluray dirt cheap), or if you really want to up your home cinema, don't muck about with marginal improvements, go big. Noticeable improvements seem to occur when you double the current spend. e.g. current amp cost £1k, assume the next will cost at least £2k. Longer term, it's more cost effective as you end up changing around far less.

If you like that, then look at a decent Atmos AV processor and standalone power amps. Yes, they are a LOT of dosh, but they're now becoming sensibly priced s/h (e.g. some of the Marantz processors) and high end gear tends to last well.

Just my thoughts.

yeah I have a 9.3.4 av pre power system not cheap once you go down this route. AV pre amps around £1000 for very cheapest all the way upto £30,000 I certainly wouldn't want or justify spending the prices on big brand AV pre amps Anthem, Storm, Trinnov, Monoprice.

I'd say for OP get a three channel power amplifier and use that for LCR.

His denon has pre outs so he options to go down that. I personally wouldn't go nuts on power amplifiers for his system since he's got fairly midrange Kef speakers, probably worthwhile to go all channel amps once he gets Kef R or similar.

Also SB3000 is a good sub and two will help, but if this in a large room, open space and you want it to play loud and loud, then sealed box may not be the best option for Home theatre. I've had and still own both types but ported has advantages for HT.

I just totaled the RMS power of the entire system, all amplifiers and subwoofers

6800W

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Does that make you feel better, saying how many "watts" you have. Maybe you could add it as part of your sig.

 

[hornetstinger]

Does that make you feel better, saying how many "watts" you have. Maybe you could add it as part of your sig.

yup I went a bit overboard that's RMS power not PMPO


This is good value although they don't have a three channel version

IOTAVX AVXP1 7 Kanal Endstufe - HifiPilot, 1.379,00 €

Die gewaltige AVXP1 7 Kanal-Endstufe ist in Sachen Preis-Leistung wohl unübertroffen und liefert mit ihrem 1300W Netzteil zuverlässig Leistung für höchste D

iotavx.com

 

[iostream]

A thought on this, based upon playing around with hifi/av kit for nearly 50 years now.
It sounds (and maybe I'm being presumptuous), that this is a classic case of consumerism, ie. that you've got some cash available, hey why not make an improvement to one of my key hobbies. Maybe that's not yourself, but I could accuse myself of it, hence the concern.

If you were to update the centre, sure, it'll be a bit better, but after a week with it, apart from being able to look smugly at it, you'll probably not remember that you've done it as the change is likely to be pretty marginal and by week 4 you'll take it for granted.

IMO, we all have our preferences on where to blow our hard earned, whether that's fast cars, Swiss watches, mountain biking, PCs, or hifi, and that's also cool.
My suggestion is to focus your attention at what you consider to be of most importance. If that is your home cinema, that's cool, go for it. But it's worth consideration, of whether you'd rather put the cash towards holidays with the family, an season ticket at footy or whatever. If cinema is in your top hit list, then go for it, however I'd like to suggest that looking at marginal improvements is hardly worth your time. Spend your hard earned on a bunch of films that you really rate (CEX is a great place to buy Bluray dirt cheap), or if you really want to up your home cinema, don't muck about with marginal improvements, go big. Noticeable improvements seem to occur when you double the current spend. e.g. current amp cost £1k, assume the next will cost at least £2k. Longer term, it's more cost effective as you end up changing around far less.

If you like that, then look at a decent Atmos AV processor and standalone power amps. Yes, they are a LOT of dosh, but they're now becoming sensibly priced s/h (e.g. some of the Marantz processors) and high end gear tends to last well.

Just my thoughts.

Thanks for the wisdom, I appreciate the reply. And right you are, classic case of consumerism! The home cinema is a rising hobby, but there are certainly better places to spend the money. Especially as there's nothing actually wrong with my current centre.

I suspect you are correct about wasting time with marginal improvements. I'd love to go somewhere where I can demo some higher end kit / power amps etc to see if I'd percieve them as a worthwhile investment.

Another thought is to instead spend some money on treating the room, eg bass traps, diffusers etc.

 

[iostream]

yeah I have a 9.3.4 av pre power system not cheap once you go down this route. AV pre amps around £1000 for very cheapest all the way upto £30,000 I certainly wouldn't want or justify spending the prices on big brand AV pre amps Anthem, Storm, Trinnov, Monoprice.

I'd say for OP get a three channel power amplifier and use that for LCR.

His denon has pre outs so he options to go down that. I personally wouldn't go nuts on power amplifiers for his system since he's got fairly midrange Kef speakers, probably worthwhile to go all channel amps once he gets Kef R or similar.

Also SB3000 is a good sub and two will help, but if this in a large room, open space and you want it to play loud and loud, then sealed box may not be the best option for Home theatre. I've had and still own both types but ported has advantages for HT.

I just totaled the RMS power of the entire system, all amplifiers and subwoofers

6800W

It's a fairly large room, and one wall is open to the next room, not really ideal.
I was hoping for ported instead of sealed for the sub, but the PB3000 was simply too large sadly. The SB3000 blends in a bit better, esp as the room doubles as the living room.

I can only dream of a dedicated cinema room!

 

[hornetstinger]

Thanks for the wisdom, I appreciate the reply. And right you are, classic case of consumerism! The home cinema is a rising hobby, but there are certainly better places to spend the money. Especially as there's nothing actually wrong with my current centre.

I suspect you are correct about wasting time with marginal improvements. I'd love to go somewhere where I can demo some higher end kit / power amps etc to see if I'd percieve them as a worthwhile investment.

Another thought is to instead spend some money on treating the room, eg bass traps, diffusers etc.

A remote control is worth looking into, as mine controls the following

Room 1
(the old) Audio streamer not the new one as that's RF remote
video streamer
BD player
AV pre amp
TV
Bias lights

Room2
Audio streamer
Stereo pre amp
CD player

Room3
Audio streamer
AVR
Bias light

With all the macros and menus so when you press a button it switches things on and off, switches inputs, then loads up a specific menu screen and then controls volume for the av pre amp, with buttons you don't need not displayed.

 

[hornetstinger]

It's a fairly large room, and one wall is open to the next room, not really ideal.
I was hoping for ported instead of sealed for the sub, but the PB3000 was simply too large sadly. The SB3000 blends in a bit better, esp as the room doubles as the living room.

I can only dream of a dedicated cinema room!

Mine are similar size/performance to the PB4000 Ultra they don't dominate the room but they don't exactly blend in visually either.

 

[hornetstinger]

You have a good system, options are

1) leave it alone and just buy little things to improve it, ie new TV stand, new hifi racking, black out curtains, remote control, room acoustic panels, sofa/sub re-arrangement, new seating, using REW room sim to determine best location of subs
2) Leave speakers alone, maybe look into toeing in, placement etc.
3) Upgrade all the Kef Q to Kef R or other similar quality brands
4) Get a minidsp HD and use that to align and EQ the subs rather than the AVR, you'd need a Umik -1 as well
5) Get a power amplifier for LCR, or for all speakers
6) Then replace the Denon with a AV pre amp
7) Get paid app for the Denon AVR room EQ app then play around with that.

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Thanks for the wisdom, I appreciate the reply. And right you are, classic case of consumerism! The home cinema is a rising hobby, but there are certainly better places to spend the money. Especially as there's nothing actually wrong with my current centre.

I suspect you are correct about wasting time with marginal improvements. I'd love to go somewhere where I can demo some higher end kit / power amps etc to see if I'd percieve them as a worthwhile investment.

Another thought is to instead spend some money on treating the room, eg bass traps, diffusers etc.

Find yourself a good local dealer and ask for a demo. They’re usually most obliging.

Ref room treatment. There’ll be plenty of good YT videos covering the subject. GIK seem to be a well respected company to deal with, just don’t expect room treatment to able to deal with room bass peaks/nodes.

 

[iostream]

Find yourself a good local dealer and ask for a demo. They’re usually most obliging.

Ref room treatment. There’ll be plenty of good YT videos covering the subject. GIK seem to be a well respected company to deal with, just don’t expect room treatment to able to deal with room bass peaks/nodes.

I've watched some videos, seems room treatment can make a large difference. I think I'll start with that.
Good news is the wife has approved something along these lines for the wall behind the couch:

Trepanel® Oak Acoustic Wood Slat Panels | Walls & Floors

Trepanel® Oak Acoustic Wood Slat Panel is ideal for creating that ever-popular wood slat look across the walls in your own home. Order your free sample now!

www.wallsandfloors.co.uk

And I'll look into GIK for 'proper' and thicker panels on the wall where the screen and L / R speakers are.
I think eventually I'll end up with a second sub to help with bass peaks / nodes...

 

[iostream]

You have a good system, options are

1) leave it alone and just buy little things to improve it, ie new TV stand, new hifi racking, black out curtains, remote control, room acoustic panels, sofa/sub re-arrangement, new seating, using REW room sim to determine best location of subs
2) Leave speakers alone, maybe look into toeing in, placement etc.
3) Upgrade all the Kef Q to Kef R or other similar quality brands
4) Get a minidsp HD and use that to align and EQ the subs rather than the AVR, you'd need a Umik -1 as well
5) Get a power amplifier for LCR, or for all speakers
6) Then replace the Denon with a AV pre amp
7) Get paid app for the Denon AVR room EQ app then play around with that.

Thanks for the ideas! I'll start with some points from 1, 2, 4 and 7. Very aware I've not really done any calibration aside from running the default Audyssey setup.

 

[Firegod]

I'm pleased with the sound, but I know that the bulk of what is 'important' (+obviously dialogue) comes out of the centre speaker. I therefore have it in my head that if I buy a bigger centre speaker, I'll have a better time. 1st world problems eh!

I'm in a similar situation. I have triangle speakers and the BRC1 for the centre. They've now released a bigger BRC2. I must have it!! lol.