Upgrade path ideas and advice please?

[sastusbulbas]

Right now I am after a new case and PSU, but still have some doubts and am to'ing and fro'ing between ideas. Which keep bringing the same questions up.

Is there any harm running using a higher wattage PSU than required?
Is water cooling old hat in these days of improving AIO solutions?
Are small cases always going to have some hidden compromises?
Am I being foolish sticking with Micro-ATX?

I have been looking at PSU, Case, AIO and water cooling options on and off as I try and make my mind up based on the following possible builds at the bottom of the page, one of which I plan to complete before the end of this year and hopefully make do with for the next couple of years.

I am currently holding off the purchase of two new GPU's as I really want the best 4k experience from two cards if thats possible with my current micro atx kit, therefor hoping AMD's new 300 series cards may have that covered when they are released.
But I need a new PSU and case now as my TJ08B-E is just not offering what I want in my current system, I have no space, my CPU cooler infringes on the HDD cables, my GPU's are really cramped, and my 650w psu just seems a bit short in headroom for my current two GPU's with no future proofing, the case is also limited to a 160mm length PSU.
Therefor whatever case and PSU I get now will be with future upgrades in mind.

Now the costs of 750w to 1300w gold and platinum PSU's seems to be pretty close, as do their efficiency figures at 20%, 50% and 100% load, though the higher the load the higher the fan noise maybe.
It seems hard to justify a 750w/850w platinum when a 1300w gold is similar in price and an even better specced 1000w or 1200w platinum is only a little more. Current PSU calculators have been showing 1000w recomendations on my ideas of watercooling with around 860w of power draw maximum I think.
I don't mind spending up to £170 on a platinum PSU, but would I be an idiot if I bought a 1200w? Would it have higher running costs over an 850w or just run cooler? Or is 1000w the PSU calculators recommend actually needed and optimal. The majority of better PSU's from 750w to 1300w cost between £150 to £180, hardly any cost issue, if higher than required wattage has no detrimental system effects or running costs. Is it better to be operating within 60% to 70% of the PSU wattage or something?

As long as it is quiet and efficient and I do not have to buy a bigger model in the next 5 years I should be happy.

The other thing is future proofing for 4k gaming, currently I hope it would be two GPU's and water cooling, but if future benchmarks show three cheaper GPU's as better value I would go back to ATX! Custom PC reported a 720w power draw with two standard 290's with an X99 system using a single SSD and AIO cooler and 1010w power draw when they used three 290's during their 4k test roundup, with three 290's offering optimal perfomance per pound.
I am planning at least two 290X as they may offer a sligh minimum frame rate increase over two 290's, but maybe AMD's next top cards in crossfire if they top the benchmarks and 4k framerates thereby negating three cards as optimal.
I have also not ruled out the 295 X2 or such. Really waiting to see what happens when AMD's new GPU's are released, how it will affect pricing etc.
This is one of the things that is making PSU wattage difficult for me to pin down.

Is the Phanteks Mini XL the best option for watercooling and air cooling two GPU's on micro atx? Would an NZXT s340 or Phanteks Evolve compomise air cooling on two GPU's or be a better choice if I was not watercooling?

My two system ideas. Originally it was based on two SSD, four HDD, and two 240 rads in push/pull, with Crossfire and playing around with CPU/GPU overclocking.

Sorry if it's all long winded and vague, I am useless at giving myself advice.

Watercooling. Maybe also the better air choice?
4770K overclocked. Watercooled
Asus Gene VI
8gb of memory
2x R9 290X in crossfire, most likely overclocked. Watercooled (Most likely AMD's 390X in crossfire upon release if they are worth the extra over the by then maybe cheaper 290X GPU's)
1 256gb 840 Pro SSD
1 512gb MX100 SSD
1 to 4 HGST 7200rpm 4tb drives (all eventually going in server/nas)
1 BluRay optic read/write drive
3 140mm case fans
8 140mm radiator fans for push/pull
1 or 2 D5 WC pumps or a Bay res/pump combo
2 240mm Monsta rads
1 CPU and 2 GPU blocks/backplates
LED strip
Phanteks Enthoo Mini XL case
But what PSU???

Or?

Air cooled with AIO
4770K overclocked
280mm AIO such as the NZXT X61 or Corsair H110i GT
Asus Gene VI
2 sticks of 4gb 2400Mhz C10 Patriot Black Mamba
2x R9 290X in crossfire, aircooled (Most likely AMD's 390X in crossfire upon release if they are worth the extra over the by then cheaper 290X GPU's)
1 256gb 840 Pro SSD
1 512gb MX100 SSD
1 or 2 HGST 7200rpm 4tb drives
2 140mm case fans
2 120mm case fans
LED strip
NZXT s340 or Phantek Evolve Micro ATX case (will they be adequate for a 280mm AIO and air cooling two GPU's with coolers dumping air in the case?)
But what PSU???

My current system.
4770K
NH-U12S
Asus Gene VI
2 sticks of 4gb 2400Mhz C10 Patriot Black Mamba
2x MSI Twin Frozr3 7950 in crossfire, aircooled (one is in another system until I get a new PSU/case)
1 256gb 840 Pro SSD
1 HGST 7200rpm 4tb drive
1 Pioneer Bluray drive
1 180mm case fan
1 120mm case fan
Seasonic X Series 650w PSU
Silverstone TJ08B-E Micro ATX case

 

[MrMD]

For the watercooled plan,i would recommend a 1200w gold/plat PSU.Honestly tho i have no idea how you could fit all that stuff in a mATX case lol

For air cooled plan,you would be fine with a 1000w unit,but would get a 1200w one anyways,so you have a little wiggle room down the line for OCing or added more stuff.

Pretty sure you will be forced to watercooling if you plan on Crossfiring.Surely on a CF/SLI enabled mATX board there is no space between the PCI-E slots and the cards will be stacked right on top of each other? Like that whatever cards you have the top one will get extremely hot, and probily throttle.

 

[sastusbulbas]

That throttling is what I expect with my current set up, there is little room between cards, and as they dump heat in the case it usually ramps up the system fan speed with little benefit.

The Evolve and s340 have little room around the GPU's, whereas the Mini XL can mount fans below them, which would possibly help until new GPU's and waterblocks are fitted, the whole proximity of GPU's in crossfire/sli and how ugly it looks with multiple fan coolers many of them have is one of the prompts towards water cooling, waterblocks and backplates look so much tidier.

Though I wonder how much room a Phanteks Mini XL has for the PSU. It looks quite decent.

 

[sastusbulbas]

Guess I should update, as I now have the Phanteks Enthoo Mini Xl case.

Next priority for this system is getting the PSU and possibly a temporary AIO or getting started on the Water loop with the CPU initially. I will wait until I have the system moved from my TJ08 and have added a new PSU before considering the radiator options or AIO though.

PSU is priority. Most overclocked and watercooled prebuild systems seem to have 1000w PSU's, though in many cases 1200w is not much more. Which is a shame, as it puts me off the excellent value EVGA G2 850w.

Really want the quietest most efficient platinum PSU for the above watercooled project though.