Upgrade time

DataVampire · 14 Feb 2017 at 15:11

Well i have a 4k tv, but the audio is a all in one a Sony BDVN7200WB.CEK(bought it without looking at the options), anyhow it is a right royal pain in the backside, i am having various problems with the system, to late to send it back now and me now being skint im having to save for a "proper av system"

The speakers i am thinking of getting are the following :

Front left : Q Acoustics 3020,Q Acoustics 3010,Q Acoustics 2020i
Front right : Q Acoustics 3020,Q Acoustics 3010,Q Acoustics 2020i
Centre : Q Acoustics Q3090c,Q Acoustics 2000Ci
Subwoofer : Gemini 2 from B.K. Electronics
Rear left : Q Acoustics 3020,Q Acoustics 3010,Q Acoustics 2020i
Rear right : Q Acoustics 3020,Q Acoustics 3010,Q Acoustics 2020i
For Atmos : Onkyo Skh410 Atmos Speakers
If i decide to go 7:1 i would add another 2 Q Acoustics 2020i

Tbh im after some advice i am not really sure if there is a big difference between the series of Q Acoustics ?.

I chose a different sub becuase i have read the one from Q Acoustics is not that good, is the one i chose going to be good enough for the rest.

Reason for choosing Q Acoustics i hear they are a good budget set, have good reviews ect ect (except the sub) the only way i can afford to buy the above is by saving(using the rainforest, top up account jobbie) not perfect i know but its th eonly way i can do this at the minute lol, i thought i woudl get the speakers first then i woudl get the av amp after.

Anyhow up for advice, i dont mind for example getting the Q Acoustics 3020 for for the fronts and say the cheaper ones for the back, woudl this work be ok, the series is also wife friendly.

tom_nieto · 14 Feb 2017 at 19:46

Double check the impedance and connections offered by your current all in one. To me it doesn't look like you'll be able to use the Q accoustics speakers with the amp without modifying the cabling a bit. Check the impedance as you might end up overloading/overheating the amplifier, or less likely destroying your new speakers.

It's not what you want to hear, but you're much better waiting and buying everything all in one go.

sprite- · 14 Feb 2017 at 21:20

Hey mate.

Not got time to feedback tonight but some questions for you, as it'll impact any recommendation. Will post back tomorrow.

Budget overall? (Speakers plus AV Receiver if getting one)
What AV Receiver do you have, or intending on Buying one.
I see you're considering Atmos with the upfiring. How serious are you about it, as speakers in the ceiling downwards firing are going to give you a much better experience. For example, I'm pretty serious about my home audio and have an Atmos AV Receiver but will only be getting in ceiling KEF speakers in a month or two when I've got time to put them in. I see the cheap Onkyo upward firing speakers as a waste of money. You normally have to spend much more to get decent ones.
What's your listening split? 70% Movies/TV, 20% Music, 10% Gaming etc
What's your room dimensions
What's your preference on speaker style, bookshelfs like the Q Acoustics listed or style speakers like Q7000.

Marsman · 15 Feb 2017 at 00:21

Some of these all in one BD/DVD based systems have odd impedance, such as 3 Ohm, which means they can't be used with modern speakers that are 6-8 Ohm without damaging something.

I've just had a look at the manual for your Sony system though, and the amp is rated at 6 Ohm; which is good news, as Q Acoustics speakers are also 6 Ohm, so there shouldn't be any problem with the speakers working with the amp until you can get an AV receiver.

You'll have to use the existing speaker cables, or splice the connectors on to the speaker cables you are going to use, because manufacturers of all in one systems like to use connectors that don't fit anything else.

DataVampire · 15 Feb 2017 at 01:56

Appologies i apear to have confused some of you lol.

I will not be using the speakers until i have a dedicated av amp.

AS i said im doing it bit by bit, first being getting the speakers, second will be the amp

DataVampire · 15 Feb 2017 at 02:08

Budget overall? (Speakers plus AV Receiver if getting one)
What AV Receiver do you have, or intending on Buying one.
I see you're considering Atmos with the upfiring. How serious are you about it, as speakers in the ceiling downwards firing are going to give you a much better experience. For example, I'm pretty serious about my home audio and have an Atmos AV Receiver but will only be getting in ceiling KEF speakers in a month or two when I've got time to put them in. I see the cheap Onkyo upward firing speakers as a waste of money. You normally have to spend much more to get decent ones.
What's your listening split? 70% Movies/TV, 20% Music, 10% Gaming etc
What's your room dimensions
What's your preference on speaker style, bookshelfs like the Q Acoustics listed or style speakers like Q7000.

1)the speakers im cucrrently saving for i have listed, i am not getting an amp until i know i have enough money saved up for the speakers. hense askign for adivce if it woudl be a good idea to get the 320`s for the front and saving a bit of case by getting the ones under ie 310/210is ect for rears and perhaps 7.1, i wont realy think about the amp jsut yet as once i have enough money for the speakers then i will be looking at getting the amp, although again i am limeted to the rainforst only at present.

2) as for atmos yes the in cielingin ones are better no doubt, but we live in rented acomadation, so unless i can hang say 210i`s of the cieling i thought the onkyo ones was a not to bad option(they have also got decent reviews also)

3) listening slit is 80% movies 20% tv, game snow and again very rare
4) room dimensions 17 foot by erm 13 feet at a rough guess there abouts
5) the speakers have near enough been sorted as i said above, all bar if it woudl be ok to say get the 3020`s for the front and say iether the 310`s or 2010i`s for the rear ect, the wife really likes the range so im sticking with them. as i said its jsut the sub that is not in the range unless you can advise the same sub in the range is good enough.

cheers for the posts guys

pioneer2000 · 15 Feb 2017 at 08:14

For atmos, upwards firing are stated by Dolby to produce a better effect in home environments as they create a more diffuse sound. In ceiling of the home often becomes too easily localised as the ceilings are not high like in a cinema.

TJM · 15 Feb 2017 at 08:52

As this is your first proper speaker setup, money is an issue and you live in rented accommodation, I would seriously consider starting with the best 2.0 or 2.1 system that you can afford and building from there later if you still fancy it. Good fronts are much more important than surrounds, and it will be far easier to setup and to move in the future.

sprite- · 15 Feb 2017 at 12:05

Ok first bit of advice.

Buy the AV Receiver first.... Literally no point buying all the speakers first, you may swell get the AV Receiver... Then as you add speakers you can actually use it, start with 2.0, then 2.1, then 5.1. Otherwise you've just got a bunch of speakers sitting somewhere, doing nothing.

The 3010 and 3020 are pretty similar, either is going to do you fine. I'd go for whatever offers the best value buy at the time personally.

sprite- · 15 Feb 2017 at 12:07

pioneer2000 said:
For atmos, upwards firing are stated by Dolby to produce a better effect in home environments as they create a more diffuse sound. In ceiling of the home often becomes too easily localised as the ceilings are not high like in a cinema.

Ceiling height can play a factor in up firing speakers. Dolby say allot of things, often in the best interest on their brand and ease of pushing Atmos due to up firing speakers being able to place

. Then again you can do allot with up firing speakers, just the Onkyo aren't a great example of them.

There are literally very few scenarios where up firing speakers and reflecting sound is going to be better than ceiling speakers, equally the Onkyo ones are only popular as they went on sale recently. So many threads where people have moved from them to ceiling speakers and seen a huge difference in experience.

lude1962 · 15 Feb 2017 at 12:39

a few points, the 3020's are rear ported so need to be at least 6inches from the wall, rears dont need to be big, they just supply infill sound 2010i (also rear ported)should be ok and their volume can be adjusted from the avr.
Unless you've got a detached house a sub should be last on the list, also on a lot of digital music the bass doesn't go that far down to make use of a sub

DataVampire · 15 Feb 2017 at 12:53

sprite- said:
Ok first bit of advice.

Buy the AV Receiver first.... Literally no point buying all the speakers first, you may swell get the AV Receiver... Then as you add speakers you can actually use it, start with 2.0, then 2.1, then 5.1. Otherwise you've just got a bunch of speakers sitting somewhere, doing nothing.

The 3010 and 3020 are pretty similar, either is going to do you fine. I'd go for whatever offers the best value buy at the time personally.

i wont have the speakers in my house just the money saved up for them, once i have enough saved i will then look at the av, then buy it all together, its wiered logic but how i have alwyas done things like this

DataVampire · 15 Feb 2017 at 12:54

lude1962 said:
a few points, the 3020's are rear ported so need to be at least 6inches from the wall, rears dont need to be big, they just supply infill sound 2010i (also rear ported)should be ok and their volume can be adjusted from the avr.
Unless you've got a detached house a sub should be last on the list, also on a lot of digital music the bass doesn't go that far down to make use of a sub

That is good to know so i shoudl be fine with getting the 320s for the front and the 2010`s for the rear

DataVampire · 15 Feb 2017 at 12:57

TJM said:
As this is your first proper speaker setup, money is an issue and you live in rented accommodation, I would seriously consider starting with the best 2.0 or 2.1 system that you can afford and building from there later if you still fancy it. Good fronts are much more important than surrounds, and it will be far easier to setup and to move in the future.

thank you for the advice, but i seriously could not go from 5:1 to a 2:1 even thoguh atm i am using a all in one system. i woudl miss the surround way to much lol.tbh the sony all in one system i have got isnt aht bad for a box system, its jsut very erm shall i say quirky, il be using that until the full system arives.

tom_nieto · 15 Feb 2017 at 12:59

TJM said:
As this is your first proper speaker setup, money is an issue and you live in rented accommodation, I would seriously consider starting with the best 2.0 or 2.1 system that you can afford and building from there later if you still fancy it. Good fronts are much more important than surrounds, and it will be far easier to setup and to move in the future.

I ditched a surround sound setup completely because of this. My room is too small, and the quality of the 2.0 setup that I can subsequently afford means that I get excellent sound positioning anyway.

sprite- said:
Ok first bit of advice.

Buy the AV Receiver first.... Literally no point buying all the speakers first, you may swell get the AV Receiver... Then as you add speakers you can actually use it, start with 2.0, then 2.1, then 5.1. Otherwise you've just got a bunch of speakers sitting somewhere, doing nothing.

The 3010 and 3020 are pretty similar, either is going to do you fine. I'd go for whatever offers the best value buy at the time personally.

This is a very valid point, and at least gets you using your system right away rather than risking something better coming along! My only hesitation would be that if you decide that a really good stereo setup is all you need then you've wasted you precious budget on components in the AV receiver which won't be required.

I wouldn't worry about blowing your budget on amazing rear speakers either. Make sure you've got your fronts sorted (and allow for a matching centre) first.

pioneer2000 · 15 Feb 2017 at 13:54

sprite- said:
Ceiling height can play a factor in up firing speakers. Dolby say allot of things, often in the best interest on their brand and ease of pushing Atmos due to up firing speakers being able to place. Then again you can do allot with up firing speakers, just the Onkyo aren't a great example of them.

There are literally very few scenarios where up firing speakers and reflecting sound is going to be better than ceiling speakers, equally the Onkyo ones are only popular as they went on sale recently. So many threads where people have moved from them to ceiling speakers and seen a huge difference in experience.

I refuse to believe that Dolby lie about the benefits of up firing speakers to aid the sale of them. It's not in their interest to, they get their money through licensing either way.

hornetstinger · 15 Feb 2017 at 14:31

good points so far. Buy the amp, if budget is a concern just go 2.0 or 2.1 for now, rather than blowing on 10.1 trying to squeeze it all it. One option is to buy second hand speakers for the remaining channels to save money, I bought a second set of matching rears to match the sides rather than buying new.

Some tips, of possible get a better sub. I'd try XL200 minimum. I use a SVS SB13 Ultra so probably bit biased towards higher end subs ;-)

If you're close to side/rear walls you might want to consider indirect firing speakers such as bipoles, if you're sticking to 5.1. They are also generally slimmer and desgined for wall mounting, rather than regular speakers which are deep and not having speaker brackets fitted (nor are the speaker terminals inset)

As for second hand, do not discount it. When I upgraded, my left/right, center, and standmounts (which I'm not using as rears, but in a second stereo system, granted) retailed for £5000. I bought them all for £1000 and they're in 99% mint condition. People will have spare speakers that they shove in cupboards as they upgrade their speakers.

dl8860 · 15 Feb 2017 at 14:43

I would go for the 2020i for fronts as the the 3020s offer little benefit for extra cost, and 2010i would be plenty for your rears.

You want to pay about £100 for the 2020s and £65 for the 2010s. Keep an eye out for clearance deals from Richer Sounds.

edit: Here you go http://www.richersounds.com/showclearanceproduct/buy/QACO-2010I-GRAPH-ES/Q+Acoustics+2010i+Graph+(Pr)+ES.html

sprite- · 15 Feb 2017 at 17:29

pioneer2000 said:
I refuse to believe that Dolby lie about the benefits of up firing speakers to aid the sale of them. It's not in their interest to, they get their money through licensing either way.

But that's not the conversation we're having.

You countered my point about getting in-ceiling speakers if the original poster was serious about Atmos, rather cheap Onkyo upward firing speakers.

It's absolutely in Dolbys interest to promote the use of upward firing speakers (The main way people will experience Atmos), Dolbys entire business model is built around the proliferation of goods which manufacturers make and license their technologies. I'd say between Dolby and DTS they're the hyperbole kings, especially when commenting on each other.

Unless you invest in some decent upward firing speakers - plus entire your ceiling height is suitable.. Typically in-ceiling speakers are going to give you the best experience. You've only got to look AVForums and see posts from people who have moved from up firing to in ceiling to know that.

DataVampire · 16 Feb 2017 at 00:59

sprite- said:
But that's not the conversation we're having.

You countered my point about getting in-ceiling speakers if the original poster was serious about Atmos, rather cheap Onkyo upward firing speakers.

It's absolutely in Dolbys interest to promote the use of upward firing speakers (The main way people will experience Atmos), Dolbys entire business model is built around the proliferation of goods which manufacturers make and license their technologies. I'd say between Dolby and DTS they're the hyperbole kings, especially when commenting on each other.

Unless you invest in some decent upward firing speakers - plus entire your ceiling height is suitable.. Typically in-ceiling speakers are going to give you the best experience. You've only got to look AVForums and see posts from people who have moved from up firing to in ceiling to know that.

Tbh i sort of guessed they was lets jsut say a poor mans or cheaper way of getting into atmos, i have no idea if people who have bought them are jsut trying to justify the money they ahve spent but there ar eseriously lots of people blessing the onkyo ones, i have no idea what they are really like. the fact of the matter i have not seen any lets say flat speakers that you can mount on your cieling, say inwall speakers in a slim case. other than that i dont think there is any other way to do it ?.

I am not saying anyone is right or wrong i honestly have no idea. but surley for the money to try/test they must be worth a poke for th emoney ,a nd since i must remind everyone i can only get all this from the rian forst(sue to the way im saving for all this) if there crap or no good i coudl jsut send them back ?.

But please keep the discusion going i am finding this very imformative and very helpfull. once more thank you for the replies