Upgrading Rear Derailleur?

Marzipanogram · 4 Jan 2019 at 22:04

My current 9 speed Hybrid bike has Shimano Altus rear and front derailleurs, plus shifters.
If I wanted to upgrade the rear derailleur to a Shimano RD-M592 Deore Shadow Rear Derailleur, could I get away with not upgrading the other two parts or is it best practice to upgrade them too?

If I do need to upgrade the gear levers, I thought of the Shimano Deore SL-M590.
But I'm puzzled why there aren't any gear numbers printed on them.
How do you tell which gear you're in at a glance?
Does each of the three "windows" have a left, middle and right position and the red marker lines up with the nine positions (3 per window)? (if that makes sense).
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=shimano+deore+SL-M590&t=ffab&iax=images&ia=images

Thank you

Begbie · 5 Jan 2019 at 08:29

Why do you need to know what gear you're in?

Most shifters don't have any indications these days, certianly not modern mountain bikes or road bikes (if ever). I can't see any reason why you need to know. Too hard, go down, more speed go up.

But you shouldn't need to change the shifter at all. The shifters will have the same pull.

FishFluff · 5 Jan 2019 at 08:52

What Begbie said. If you need to know what gear you’re in, have a quick peek over your shoulder at the cassette. Eventually you learn to tell what gear you’re in by ‘feel’.

Also rear derailleurs don’t have a ‘speed’ like shifters. They’e dumb devices that move a fixed amount in response to cable pull from the shifters

Marzipanogram · 5 Jan 2019 at 11:05

Begbie said:
Why do you need to know what gear you're in?

Most shifters don't have any indications these days, certianly not modern mountain bikes or road bikes (if ever). I can't see any reason why you need to know. Too hard, go down, more speed go up.

But you shouldn't need to change the shifter at all. The shifters will have the same pull.

Thank you for your help.

I've only been a Born Again Cyclist for a few months and one thing I've learnt is to be in the right gear, before I need to be in it.
Especially when I'm not able to change gear underload or instantly.

Some of the routes I take have instant 45 to 60 degree sections, without being in the right gear to start with would mean I wouldn't get up them.
Reacting to changes doesn't work at the moment.
I've memorised what gear I need to be in a certain points of some routes, just to make it easier for myself.
If Goldilocks was cycling, she'd say one gear is too hard, one is too easy and one is just right.

Once I've upgraded, the planning ahead might not be as important, especially if I can change gear underload and instantly.
But at the moment I'm relying on the gear numbers to be in the right gear at the right time.

Marzipanogram · 5 Jan 2019 at 11:06

FishFluff said:
What Begbie said. If you need to know what gear you’re in, have a quick peek over your shoulder at the cassette. Eventually you learn to tell what gear you’re in by ‘feel’.

Also rear derailleurs don’t have a ‘speed’ like shifters. They’e dumb devices that move a fixed amount in response to cable pull from the shifters

Thank you for the advice.
I've fitted a pannier rack and bag, so I'd have to stop and get off to look at what gear I was in

Begbie · 5 Jan 2019 at 11:40

Marzipanogram said:
Thank you for your help.

I've only been a Born Again Cyclist for a few months and one thing I've learnt is to be in the right gear, before I need to be in it.
Especially when I'm not able to change gear underload or instantly.

Some of the routes I take have instant 45 to 60 degree sections, without being in the right gear to start with would mean I wouldn't get up them.
Reacting to changes doesn't work at the moment.
I've memorised what gear I need to be in a certain points of some routes, just to make it easier for myself.
If Goldilocks was cycling, she'd say one gear is too hard, one is too easy and one is just right.

Once I've upgraded, the planning ahead might not be as important, especially if I can change gear underload and instantly.
But at the moment I'm relying on the gear numbers to be in the right gear at the right time.

Then just break the habit rather than falling into bad habits.

I can't think of a single road bike that would come with numbered shifters, and millions deal with it daily.

Marzipanogram · 5 Jan 2019 at 12:16

Begbie said:
Then just break the habit rather than falling into bad habits.

I can't think of a single road bike that would come with numbered shifters, and millions deal with it daily.

I'm not sure what habits you're talking about.
Well, my current bike has numbered gears. I appreciate it might not be "cool" and look unprofessional to have numbers.
But why do they even have a gauge with the red/orange indicator, if it's not necessary to know what gear you're in?

I'll stick some adhesive numbers on it and when I change gear, I'll think of you

Begbie · 5 Jan 2019 at 13:06

Marzipanogram said:
I'm not sure what habits you're talking about.
Well, my current bike has numbered gears. I appreciate it might not be "cool" and look unprofessional to have numbers.
But why do they even have a gauge with the red/orange indicator, if it's not necessary to know what gear you're in?

I'll stick some adhesive numbers on it and when I change gear, I'll think of you

I just mean if you ever upgrade your bike, you most likely won't have that luxury. So you'll then have to break this habit.

Doesn't bother me, do as needed.

mattyfez · 5 Jan 2019 at 13:49

As above, you're best off getting used to it by feel.. You just need to know whether to shift up or down.

If your bike is 3x9 a good way to get used to it is just leave the front on the middle ring and rear shifting is fine for 95%of the time.

You're already half way there as you've realised shifting under load isn't a good idea, but a good technique of you get caught off guard in too stiff a gear on a hill.. you can unweight the pedals a bit whilst you shift then put the power back on the pedals. You'll lose a bit of momentum but in time you'll learn to unweight and shift and then pedal harder again very quickly

I never know what gear I'm in, but I know if I'm in top or bottom on the rear by feel.. Anything in between it's just a case of shifting up or down as nessesary.

It helps to think about your cadence (how fast you're spinning the pedals).. If you start spinning slow and having to put a lot of effort, or you find yourself starting to spin out, you're in the wrong gear.

Marzipanogram · 5 Jan 2019 at 15:33

Begbie said:
I just mean if you ever upgrade your bike, you most likely won't have that luxury. So you'll then have to break this habit.

Doesn't bother me, do as needed.

OK, understood

mattyfez said:
As above, you're best off getting used to it by feel.. You just need to know whether to shift up or down.

If your bike is 3x9 a good way to get used to it is just leave the front on the middle ring and rear shifting is fine for 95%of the time.

You're already half way there as you've realised shifting under load isn't a good idea, but a good technique of you get caught off guard in too stiff a gear on a hill.. you can unweight the pedals a bit whilst you shift then put the power back on the pedals. You'll lose a bit of momentum but in time you'll learn to unweight and shift and then pedal harder again very quickly

I never know what gear I'm in, but I know if I'm in top or bottom on the rear by feel.. Anything in between it's just a case of shifting up or down as nessesary.

It helps to think about your cadence (how fast you're spinning the pedals).. If you start spinning slow and having to put a lot of effort, or you find yourself starting to spin out, you're in the wrong gear.

Many thanks for your help

XE11 · 7 Jan 2019 at 11:31

generally speaking, unless you absolutely love your bike frame, upgrading drive train bits by bits are generally poor value for money. i suggest you just keep using what you have, how ever bad your habits are, just use it until the whole lot falls apart. save the money for now and go for a new bike later. i was in the same boat and at the end i just went for a 1x11 gear system, then i dont have to worry about cross-chain or what-not.

Marzipanogram · 7 Jan 2019 at 18:32

XE11 said:
generally speaking, unless you absolutely love your bike frame, upgrading drive train bits by bits are generally poor value for money. i suggest you just keep using what you have, how ever bad your habits are, just use it until the whole lot falls apart. save the money for now and go for a new bike later. i was in the same boat and at the end i just went for a 1x11 gear system, then i dont have to worry about cross-chain or what-not.

Thank you very much for the useful information

Roady · 10 Jan 2019 at 10:44

All good info here Marzi, but I'll back up the 'not needing to know' advice. I came from 8 speed and I got to 'know' what gear I was in. I had Sora with the little levers, then scratched/broke the screens so couldn't see them. With that few gears and the splits/gaps between them you can tell the difference between them and instinctively 'know' which gear you're in. As I've got progressively more gears that's something I've lost track of - I used to almost 'count' thinking knowing the right gear mattered a huge amount to avoid cross chaining, so I could regularly change the front derailleur. Roll on a couple more years and 11 speed, that's not something most of us keep track of. I initially became quite terrible at cross chaining, just generally keeping in the big chainring and using the smaller for climbing only. I'm slightly better now but I've learnt to not really care about cross chaining so much. Yes it wears chains and is inefficient - but chains are cheap and the convenience/safety of not needing to change front chainring in traffic I consider it a necessary 'evil' of my commuting. Safety/quick changes definitely beats efficiency when commuting!

Begbie said:
I can't think of a single road bike that would come with numbered shifters, and millions deal with it daily.

Older Shimano Sora (2300?) came with them, the current does not. Think even Tiagra did last series. I've seen them a number of times on older 8/9 speed setups, so they're not as uncommon as you think!

Obviously moving away from road/STI/drop bar shifters they're very common. A 2011 hybrid I had (Carrera Subway) with flat bar triggers also had them.

They're obviously pretty universal on twist shifts too!

Marzipanogram · 10 Jan 2019 at 13:46

Roady said:
All good info here Marzi, but I'll back up the 'not needing to know' advice. I came from 8 speed and I got to 'know' what gear I was in. I had Sora with the little levers, then scratched/broke the screens so couldn't see them. With that few gears and the splits/gaps between them you can tell the difference between them and instinctively 'know' which gear you're in. As I've got progressively more gears that's something I've lost track of - I used to almost 'count' thinking knowing the right gear mattered a huge amount to avoid cross chaining, so I could regularly change the front derailleur. Roll on a couple more years and 11 speed, that's not something most of us keep track of. I initially became quite terrible at cross chaining, just generally keeping in the big chainring and using the smaller for climbing only. I'm slightly better now but I've learnt to not really care about cross chaining so much. Yes it wears chains and is inefficient - but chains are cheap and the convenience/safety of not needing to change front chainring in traffic I consider it a necessary 'evil' of my commuting. Safety/quick changes definitely beats efficiency when commuting!

Older Shimano Sora (2300?) came with them, the current does not. Think even Tiagra did last series. I've seen them a number of times on older 8/9 speed setups, so they're not as uncommon as you think!

Obviously moving away from road/STI/drop bar shifters they're very common. A 2011 hybrid I had (Carrera Subway) with flat bar triggers also had them.

They're obviously pretty universal on twist shifts too!

Thank you very much for the help and advice