US kills Iran's General Soleimani

Soldato
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Intentionally shooting down a passenger plane to hit back at another country is the correct way of not only having the entire world unite against you but to ensure the complete and utter annihilation of your own country.

Trump would go to town on Iran if they had specifically targeted a plane full of yanks. He would have no resistance from the US population and prob most of the world, it would be a bloodbath.

Not if they say it was an accident.
 
Man of Honour
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My guess would be either some form of IFF/SSR failure on the airliner or the TOR itself and if I had to guess I could see the following sequence happening - The IRG operator saw an object not squawking any Mode 3A/C/S idents (the codes which say "hey I'm an airliner") and told his Battery Commander who, when unable to ask for higher clearance (am I being Jammed?) and under the immense pressure of thinking that this unknown object may have been part of a US retaliation, made the ultimate decision to shoot.

Again, pure guess work on my part but based on knowledge of the region and the types of equipment used etc.

Regardless of the "How?", the IRG would have known what really happened as soon as the Battery Commander was finally able to report what he did, and the Government would have known shortly afterwards, my guess would be at most it took 24hrs for everyone in a position of authority to be briefed.

I'm not convinced with some previous incidents that many of these ME countries have an effective top to bottom system of monitoring of IFF, etc. and when it comes to situations when they are on alert there are gaps in their ability to check/double check.
 
Caporegime
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So did Ukraine not get the memo? This is not complicated. If there are reports of hostility or any risk of, then all airspace gets shut down in a worldwide centralised action.

And we know which countries are at risk, all airspace should be shut down in the entire middle east. If ukraine hasnt yet done anything about that russian military rebel area where a plane was shot down a few years ago, then ban that area too.

The entire Middle East? You know how big an area that is and how many hubs there are in the region right? A significant proportion of flights from the UK go through those hubs.

And the irony of the Ukranian downing a few years ago was that the rebels declared a no fly zone (because they were shooting down military planes), but the Ukranian government and ATC refused to acknowledge it, continuing to send civilian aircraft through the area.

It’s also worth pointing out that Iran wasn’t a war zone until about a week ago, and it’s still not unless Trump decides to make it so. It’s not Iraq or Syria. That said, a plane taking off during a period of heightened standoff is rather silly, something the Iranian ATC and plane pilots should have considered (maybe they did).
 
Caporegime
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Just pick a different spot on the time line and the cause and effect get flipped. Anyone can play this game:



https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/trump-iran-stand-down-navy-seal-jack-carr.amp

And now flip that round and swap Iraqi for American and American for iraqi.

“I remember when the Americans invaded my country, when they bombed my next door neighbours house and killed my childhood friend and his family” etc...

Now who’s to blame?

This action is a direct result of Trump authorizing an attack on a top Iranian general.
 
Soldato
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The entire Middle East? You know how big an area that is and how many hubs there are in the region right? A significant proportion of flights from the UK go through those hubs.

And the irony of the Ukranian downing a few years ago was that the rebels declared a no fly zone (because they were shooting down military planes), but the Ukranian government and ATC refused to acknowledge it, continuing to send civilian aircraft through the area.

It’s also worth pointing out that Iran wasn’t a war zone until about a week ago, and it’s still not unless Trump decides to make it so. It’s not Iraq or Syria. That said, a plane taking off during a period of heightened standoff is rather silly, something the Iranian ATC and plane pilots should have considered (maybe they did).

All of the middle east has been a war zone for over 2000 years. They just take short breaks sometimes.
 
Caporegime
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All of the middle east has been a war zone for over 2000 years. They just take short breaks sometimes.

Uhuh, and what was Europe for those 2000 years?

Recent history ignored, it wasn't dissimilar and it wouldn't be a surprise that the area with strong urban habitation (having been the main migration avenue) for thousands of years prior, that it would have more conflict simply because Europe was barely settled. These opportunistic jibes are a little boring.
 
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Caporegime
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I'm thinking it's more likely they knew it was Canadians, less risky than hitting Americans but still a powerful signal.

Why would the do that? The majority of people on that plane were Iranians, and Iran has problems with the US, not Canada (or Europe). Rather long leap there tbh.

A bit like claiming the US would blow up Taiwanese aircraft to get back at Iran...
 
Caporegime
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All of the middle east has been a war zone for over 2000 years. They just take short breaks sometimes.

Just like Europe then?

Even a US airliner leaving Iran would be half full of Iranian nationals.

That and US sanctions/relations mean there have not been any US airlines operating in Iran for a long time. Same with the idea of it being full of American citizens.

Some of the logic being posted by several in this thread suggests a major knowledge gap regarding Iran, it’s internal politics and it’s relations with other countries.

Easier to see them as the “axis of evil”, just as some Iranian nationalists truly believe in the “great Satan” and that the US truly want to wipe them and their culture from the earth.
 
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Caporegime
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We’ve been at peace for 74 years. I wonder if the ME has ever had a peacetime of that length.

And in those 74 years we've been involved there heavily, it's more than a tad opportune, certainly when at the very least we give an easy target for demagoguery to blame for their own issues.

That said, it was likely always going to be this way due to how important oil was to everyone else. Honestly the worst thing to happen in the region was the end of the Ottoman empire, for their sake, it would have been better if they federalised instead of letting Britain and France make pointless borders.
 
Caporegime
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GI honestly don’t know how spokespeople can stand in front of an audience, and barefaced lie with such conviction.

That's just modern politics. Even the White House Spokesperson has to go out every day and stand there saying white is black with a straight face....
 
Soldato
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And in those 74 years we've been involved there heavily, it's more than a tad opportune, certainly when at the very least we give an easy target for demagoguery to blame for their own issues.

That said, it was likely always going to be this way due to how important oil was to everyone else. Honestly the worst thing to happen in the region was the end of the Ottoman empire, for their sake, it would have been better if they federalised instead of letting Britain and France make pointless borders.

Because we still have allies there who we get involved with.

Europe has not had the sort of on-going, factional wars the middle east has for 100s of years. Even within Iran there are a bunch of different militias/warlords with different alliances and agendas.
 
Associate
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And now flip that round and swap Iraqi for American and American for iraqi.

“I remember when the Americans invaded my country, when they bombed my next door neighbours house and killed my childhood friend and his family” etc...

Now who’s to blame?

This action is a direct result of Trump authorizing an attack on a top Iranian general.

Gen. Soleimani led the effort that resulted in the deaths of US personel, so we killed him.

Humans have been killing each other for all of our existence. Like I said before, just pick a spot on the timline that suits your side.
 
Caporegime
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I do agree that the fact they finally admitted it is a positive move, I’d like to see them get a little credit for that, hopefully for the sake of those that died it would be great to see some good come from such a terrible accident.

Lol get a little credit for what? After lying their asses off and not only knowing they shot it, knowing the US knows (knew very early on) they did it, then footage of the mission emerges and is shared publicly, flight tracking sites (public) show the story re: engine failure they trotted out to be a sham, the images from the crash site showing signs of missile damage and finally... someone found the end of the missile. Not sure what credit you want to give them - they lied and lied then only finally acknowledged it when it was utterly ridiculous to carry on with the farce - even ordinary Iranians subjected to so much propaganda were starting to see through the BS online.
 
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