Used car woes/rant

The_Dark_Side · 20 May 2016 at 00:15

A pal of mine has long wanted an R32 Golf. He's never found himself in a position to buy one until recently so 7 weeks ago he took the plunge, looked for the best he could find and bought one from an independent dealer.
So far so good.
Anyhoo a couple of weeks ago the car develops a very occasional squeak from one of its pulleys. It sounds like a dry bearing, i.e. a metallic screech if you will, and only appears when the car has been running over 20 minutes, but as the vehicle is new to him (and, tbh, it's his pride and joy) he wanted it put right so he booked it into a main dealer. Less than 20 minutes after dropping the car off they call him to say they can't hear said squeak but they can hear a rattle from the top end. They go on to say the technician isn't sure what the cause of this may be so he'd like to measure the timing chain to see if it's stretched.....and charge £850 to do this. They follow up this bombshell with another, namely that if the chain needs replacing it will cost a further £1500-2000. Now personally when I put a car into a main dealer I do not want to receive the reply "we're not sure etc etc". It's at the dealer because you're supposed to know the things inside and out and not to have a stab in the dark at the customers expense!
That's the rant part over, now I'm asking for advice from you guys on his behalf. After some skip reading it looks like the sale of goods act applies here and although the initial 30 period allowing him to return the car has passed it is still within the 6 month period and this States the fault is deemed to be there at the time of purchase. He got a generic warranty with the vehicle but that only covers repairs upto £500 and a chain replacement is going to be far more than that for sure.
So, based on your experiences/knowledge is the seller obliged to repair the car? It's an 08 plate with around 80k miles so I don't think they could claim a chain going at that mileage is reasonable and expected wear and tear.
What do you guys think?

Invertigo · 20 May 2016 at 07:04

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than myself will chime in shortly, but I'd say it's a perfect time to bring the car back to the dealers, tell them the problem and get them to fix it. Within the first 6 months, the onus will be on them to prove the fault absolutely was not there at purchase.

Lashout_UK · 20 May 2016 at 08:40

Depends on how it's been cared for, I guess. Friend's 8-year-old Yaris suffered a stretched chain at just 80k. Does seem to be a problem with them, particularly if the oil isn't changed/at the correct level regularly.

I'd get a marque expert to look at it - someone like VAGtech.

tiffanys · 20 May 2016 at 10:14

if you brought it from a dealer then you are entitled to get the car repaired at their cost or a full refund. i think it is a sale of goods act law.

Gaygle · 20 May 2016 at 13:47

I'd definitely get a second opinion before returning to the trader. Take it to a well known VW specialist to see what they have to say. If they agree there is an abnormal rattle, you have two independent expert assessments saying something is wrong and it will be harder for the trader to shrug their shoulders and say they can't hear anything wrong.

Clarkson · 20 May 2016 at 14:25

I don't know the exact cost but from having done a bit of reading up on MK5 R32's myself in the past then, whilst not a cheap job, it shouldn't cost anything like 2 grand!

Obviously that's a typical main dealer. Find a good indie who knows the cars.

paradigm · 20 May 2016 at 14:30

Without knowing locations involved it's hard to give recommendations, but there are LOTS of well regarded VAG group specialists out there.

However, given that this car should indeed still be covered by a warranty (ignore the repair price "limit" that's not your friends problem, it's the dealers at this point in time), I'd give the seller the opportunity to put right first.

Siliconslave · 20 May 2016 at 14:56

there was an issue with the A3's 3.2 engine where the chain would stretch around the link with a logo stamped on it

the result was more misfiring etc than a squeak.

Worth getting it into a specialist and seeing what they say - someone like http://www.mdmtechnik.co.uk/ - they can check and see if there are any error codes flagging up and give a second opinion.

g60dubster · 20 May 2016 at 23:16

The issues common on the mk4 R32 but not the MK5 as the design of the tensioner was changed. Get someone with vcds or the dealer vas tool to check the chain readings, that will tell you if it's stretched or not.
Where abouts is your mate? There are many good specialists around the country, I've used a fair few, you really want someone who knows the R32 and not just Vw's in general.

The_Dark_Side · 20 May 2016 at 23:32

g60dubster said:
The issues common on the mk4 R32 but not the MK5 as the design of the tensioner was changed. Get someone with vcds or the dealer vas tool to check the chain readings, that will tell you if it's stretched or not.
Where abouts is your mate? There are many good specialists around the country, I've used a fair few, you really want someone who knows the R32 and not just Vw's in general.

I'll add a little more info. He's on teeside and the car has a full main dealer service history.
I have a vcds but I haven't used it much and didn't realise it could show data like that. I'm also aware that VW changed the chain supplier around 2004 but that won't affect a 2008 car thankfully. After wanting an R32 for so long these problems have left my friend feeling almost depressed but hopefully the consumer laws are on his side.

g60dubster · 21 May 2016 at 11:29

I'd do a full scan with vcds to be sure there are no fault codes stores first, then talk to the seller about the squeaking noise, not the chains unless there is clear evidence of chain stretch.

There's no way that it should cost £800 in diagnostics, that's to strip down the top end and physically check the chains and tensioner. There's no need to do that if the measuring block are within tolerance.

I've only heard of very few mk5's needing chains, it's just not the same issue as the mk4.
main dealers didn't really know these very well when they were current never mind now, but someone's probably remembered all the issues with the mk4 and assumed it needs chains......

mine went into the local dealer for coil pack recall and came out with a list as long as your arm, said it has possible chain tensioner faliing, dual mass flywheel fault or clutch pack issues.

None of it was true, just the extra vibrations due to the poly engine mounts and upgraded clutch packs in the dsg.

If he's not already joined, join R32oc.com. you'll get loads of support and info there.

The_Dark_Side · 21 May 2016 at 18:00

g60dubster said:
There's no way that it should cost £800 in diagnostics, that's to strip down the top end and physically check the chains and tensioner. There's no need to do that if the measuring block are within tolerance.

Thanks for your help so far, it's really appreciated. They told him the £850 was to measure the chain and that means the gearbox had to be removed. I'm sure he said they'd mentioned the box had to come out to get the chain cover off. There's a slight rattle coming from the top end but I was under the impression that when these VW chains have stretched the noise it creates is more pronounced? The forums are full of descriptions along the lines of a tin can full of marbles.

g60dubster · 21 May 2016 at 19:46

The_Dark_Side said:
Thanks for your help so far, it's really appreciated. They told him the £850 was to measure the chain and that means the gearbox had to be removed. I'm sure he said they'd mentioned the box had to come out to get the chain cover off. There's a slight rattle coming from the top end but I was under the impression that when these VW chains have stretched the noise it creates is more pronounced? The forums are full of descriptions along the lines of a tin can full of marbles.

That's right, it is a very pronounced sound, the rattle that's there could well be linked to the source of the squealing noise.
I'd really take it back to the seller to resolve the squealing before considering any more diagnosis for any other noises, it could well dissapear.

From what I can remember, some of the R32 specialists don't charge much more than a grand for chain replacement anyway.

Hades · 21 May 2016 at 21:15

My Corrado VR6 cost just over £1k to have the chains replaced by the previous owner a few years ago (similar but 2.9l 12 valve earlier version of the engine). 80k would be extremely low miles to have the chains replaced (but not impossible). I'd have expected well over 100k before it needed it (many Corrado VR6 at 150k with no need for chains and the R32 is a more modern version so should be more robust). I would also expect chains to make a more pronounced noise but obviously it has to start somewhere before getting louder.

Chains are a possibility but at 80k not extremely likely. Definitely take to a specialist or independant rather than a dealer (I'm not sure where you are but I can recommend somewhere in Surrey as a good independant).