UT 2007 concerns

Supercow · 20 Sep 2006 at 09:40

After reading more about the game again on gamespot, I felt rather concerned about the new "more realistic mavity".
They mention "advance manueveres" more experienced players can pull off.
They felt that new players didn't stand a chance, and didnt even know where they were beeing shot from.
This kinda bugs me to be honest, and it's kinda worrying that it's getting dumbed down.

Does anyone have any more info or opinions on this?

neocon · 20 Sep 2006 at 09:51

Yeah, mavity is fine, it doesn't need fixing.
The game needs a learning curve and it should reward people who play for long periods of time.

If they want UT2007 to be sucessful they should make sure its finished upon release, i.e. stable.
They should also make a decent front end, so that people can easily find games.
BF2 springs to mind.

gord · 20 Sep 2006 at 10:31

sup3rc0w said:
After reading more about the game again on gamespot, I felt rather concerned about the new "more realistic mavity".
They mention "advance manueveres" more experienced players can pull off.
They felt that new players didn't stand a chance, and didnt even know where they were beeing shot from.
This kinda bugs me to be honest, and it's kinda worrying that it's getting dumbed down.

That doesnt sound like dumbing down to me, that sounds like the opposite. Games get dumbed down so that all players can play and be masters in 10 minutes killing off any sort of achievement. If your a new player and you cant figure out whats happening because youve only played it 20 minutes then good. On a similar note though, if youve been playing for hours and still have no clue then its gone too far the other way.

valerian · 20 Sep 2006 at 10:45

sup3rc0w said:
After reading more about the game again on gamespot, I felt rather concerned about the new "more realistic mavity".
They mention "advance manueveres" more experienced players can pull off.
They felt that new players didn't stand a chance, and didnt even know where they were beeing shot from.
This kinda bugs me to be honest, and it's kinda worrying that it's getting dumbed down.

Does anyone have any more info or opinions on this?

i think its a good idea, cos if you go on line to play and just keep getting wasted by people who sit and play it all day, it puts you off playing-therefore cuts down on the amount of opponents.

Supercow · 20 Sep 2006 at 11:35

gord said:
Games get dumbed down so that all players can play and be masters in 10 minutes killing off any sort of achievement.

That's my point, they are "levelling the playing fields" so the new players stand more of a chance, which is rubbish imo. Why should someone whos just picking it up be even able to kill an experienced player.
They can make dedicated "New to the game" servers/new lobby systems if they wanna do that, and you can choose your own playing field.

Valerian said:
cos if you go on line to play and just keep getting wasted by people who sit and play it all day

IMO those people have earned their right to pwn. So like i say, if your new to the game, go play other newcomers, not the guys who play all day long.

Psyk · 20 Sep 2006 at 12:47

I think the mavity will be closer to that of the original UT. 2k3/4 was very "floaty". Some people really liked that but I think more people miss the gameplay of the original. Also the mavity in 2k3/4 meant the level scales were way off. Corridors had to be 3 times the size of a player because that's how high they could jump.

VeNT · 20 Sep 2006 at 12:59

being killed by people who have leared a "trick" that lets you kill people without them knowing where from etc is not skills.
its akin to new players in CS picking up an AWP and camping one good spot where no-one can see them.
its not big, its not smart and its not earned.
real skill is knowing how to play as a team, how to bait the other players into traps, how to guard your base and capture the objective without the other team even knowing you're there.

NutritioN · 20 Sep 2006 at 13:04

Lo c0w, time for a rematch soon

So which way is it going? I couldn't decide from your quote..

Heavier players AND more manoevers, or heavier players and less manoevers so that noobs have less to think about? I thought I had heard (rumours) that there would be more "realistic" movement and less boosting. Although I still love UT2K4, I'm open to a variation in the movement if the game is still great.

VeNT · 20 Sep 2006 at 13:07

whatever you say, its just not Tribes 2

NutritioN · 20 Sep 2006 at 13:15

VeNT said:
being killed by people who have leared a "trick" that lets you kill people without them knowing where from etc is not skills.

The movement we're talking about is not a trick though is it? You have an experience related advantage knowing that:

Pressing jump twice jumps higher
Pressing strafe twice strafe dodges
Combinations of these allow you to get to hard to reach powerups
Combinations of these let you advance/retreat faster

Newcomers may be frustrated at first trying to beat a player with these skills, but they're hardly unfair/lame/cheats with relation to UT. Although I agree that camping/walking around in skyboxes in CS is

Supercow · 20 Sep 2006 at 13:22

VeNT said:
being killed by people who have leared a "trick" that lets you kill people without them knowing where from etc is not skills.
its akin to new players in CS picking up an AWP and camping one good spot where no-one can see them.
its not big, its not smart and its not earned.
real skill is knowing how to play as a team, how to bait the other players into traps, how to guard your base and capture the objective without the other team even knowing you're there.

Dont post if you have never played the game before

And Nutrition: Im playing again, so I'm up for it anytime!

NutritioN · 20 Sep 2006 at 13:26

I've never officially stopped, just big gaps of not playing

what do you play as? I still have my buddy list from days of yore, so I do check for sup3rc0w now and again.

I'm still NutritioN

Supercow · 20 Sep 2006 at 13:28

I shortened it to sc!

VeNT · 20 Sep 2006 at 13:43

NutritioN said:
The movement we're talking about is not a trick though is it? You have an experience related advantage knowing that:

Pressing jump twice jumps higher

Pressing strafe twice strafe dodges

Combinations of these allow you to get to hard to reach powerups

Combinations of these let you advance/retreat faster

Newcomers may be frustrated at first trying to beat a player with these skills, but they're hardly unfair/lame/cheats with relation to UT. Although I agree that camping/walking around in skyboxes in CS is

these are hardly going to produce the effect described.
I did play UT2k3 for a while, but from what SC described as "They felt that new players didn't stand a chance, and didnt even know where they were beeing shot from" it seemed to me that they had introduced a new set of tricks.

Supercow · 20 Sep 2006 at 13:52

VeNT said:
these are hardly going to produce the effect described.

Yes they would

Pulseammo · 20 Sep 2006 at 13:58

I really liked the movement tricks in 2k4. Infact it was one of the things that made the game really good and didn't make you bored quickly. It certainly gave the game replay value as you tried to practice and integrate those tricks at the same time as trying to be able to aim. 2k4 was the first UT game that I owned and I loved it, it was much better than the other deathmatch shooters such as quake.

I'll be annoyed if you have dumbed it down so that all there is to the game (or at least the close battle deathmatch / ctf game) is moving (at constant speed ala q3), shooting and the occasional jump.

NutritioN · 20 Sep 2006 at 14:06

VeNT said:
...

But we don't really know what was being described. Someone not knowing where they are being attacked from can be because of a few things, like being killed before you could locate your attacker (running circles around you) or not expecting an attack from above or below etc.

Anyway, not much we can work out yet.

Pulseammo said:
I'll be annoyed if you have dumbed it down so that all there is to the game (or at least the close battle deathmatch / ctf game) is moving (at constant speed ala q3), shooting and the occasional jump.

Exactly, infact this year I have REALLY got back into Q3, loving it. There's no point creating a new multiplayer fps that has a very pure gameplay when it's been done before. I'm all for sequels to go crazy with new features, if I don't like it I'll carry on playing UT and Q3.

HangTime · 20 Sep 2006 at 14:12

I think it's hard to find the right balance between the 'pro' audience and the 'casual' audience.

Create a skill-dependent game with a very steep learning curve in order to please the pro crowd and gain exposure from the CPL etc, and you risk alienating the casual gamers who just want to log on after supper and have a quick blast for half an hour.

Create a luck-dependent game which can be easily mastered in which experience matters little, and you risk a lot of negative press from the more vocal, pro community.

Personally I think that as more and more people are getting into multiplayer gaming, the emphasis will shift more towards the casual, dumbed-down side of things. At the end of the day, devs/publishers want to sell games, they don't really care if games are shallow and shunned by a few 'l33t' diehards still playing older titles.

Supercow · 20 Sep 2006 at 14:23

HangTime said:
Personally I think that as more and more people are getting into multiplayer gaming, the emphasis will shift more towards the casual, dumbed-down side of things. At the end of the day, devs/publishers want to sell games, they don't really care if games are shallow....

Added to the fact the game will be out for the console aswell, and I get the sad feeling inside that that might just be the case.
Time will tell of course.

VeNT · 20 Sep 2006 at 14:26

sup3rc0w said:
Added to the fact the game will be out for the console aswell, and I get the sad feeling inside that that might just be the case.
Time will tell of course.

exactly, consol gamers want something that they can get 4 people playing on one TV while having a few beers etc!