Vauxhall Ampera

[mr tommo]

Anybody have any experience with these? My dad is currently thinking about going down the Electric/Hybrid route as they are offered on the Motability scheme he has been a part of for a few years now since losing his leg.

I seem to remember the Vauxhall Ampera was the best one but I've not really kept up with this side of the market.

He only does less than 30 miles per day at the moment and has solar panels at home which may/may not help keep the cost of charging down.

My understanding is the Ampera is powered by electric motors, will do 25-50 miles electirc only and it then has a 1.4 petrol generator to keep the electric motors powered up. I take it this means that it can't run out of batteries and as long as you keep the tank topped up as you would in a normal car it has unlimited range?

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Yeah it will keep going fine with no juice. I had one overnight so I could charge it properly. Very impressed and rides well despite the mass . Did 37miles with 34 in EV as I held petrol mode for 3 miles of motorway as that hits range harder.... Works out at 299 mpg with about 90p of electricity used. When it's full it's a good quick enough car and perfect for commuting.

The buttons on the dash are a bit fiddly, no feedback and scattered across the centre console with limited logic! Small boot aswell may be an issue for some drivers.

 

[mr tommo]

Yes been watching a few videos and the dash buttons did seem a little naff.

So you can choose between electric & petrol then? Or did it run out of electricity after 34 miles?

Seems to be very good from what I have read so far, is it the best hybrid to go for?

 

[Lashout_UK]

Lovely bits of kit really. Did the original launch for the Volt (its Chevrolet twin) and was very impressed.

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/chevrolet/volt/hatchback-2012/

We ran an Ampera as a long-term test car as well, later, and very rarely did we use any fuel - charged it up during the day, ran it in EV mode most of the time. Obviously that was primarily due to our relatively low mileage in that instance, though.

Definitely worth trying one I used to get about 30 miles out of ours on EV only, partly due to its regeneration function. There's a hold mode that allows you to save the battery, instead running the generator to drive the electric motors, so you can use pure electric mode as and when you want.

Here's our recently updated Ampera review: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/vauxhall/ampera

 

[mr tommo]

It definitely does seem like the way to go.

Thanks just had a good read of that autocar article, apart from the lack of engagement with the ride it seems to get good reviews across the board.

With hold mode, why would you want to use this if say you daily mileage was 20-30 miles?

My dad's daily useage is around 8 miles town driving at 30mph, 12 miles dual carriageway at 50mph. Any extra mileage int he day would be around town. Vehicle can be charged every night at home.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

It definitely does seem like the way to go.

Thanks just had a good read of that autocar article, apart from the lack of engagement with the ride it seems to get good reviews across the board.

With hold mode, why would you want to use this if say you daily mileage was 20-30 miles?

My dad's daily useage is around 8 miles town driving at 30mph, 12 miles dual carriageway at 50mph. Any extra mileage int he day would be around town. Vehicle can be charged every night at home.

You wouldn't I just knew I'd be better using hold as the Fosse is slow and typically there's a 20 minute queue to get on site at work;I wanted to keep EV for that type of stop start.

That sort of use sounds a good contender for no use fuel use at all.

 

[DaveyD]

I've been driving the Volt recently, my god the brakes on that thing are terrible - it's nigh on impossible to manoeuvre the thing smoothly (and safely!)

I really can't get on with the touch screen dash and touch sensitive buttons on there either, it just feels all very laggy and annoying.

On the road once you're going - it's not a bad car, and by your dad's driving requirement it looks like he *could* get to work on a single charge - but you'll be driving back with the engine on - which can be very noisy and quite a lot of vibration.

They're not a bad first attempt at a plug in hybrid for GM, but there's some serious flaws about them that put me off them.

 

[mr tommo]

Ah I see, so the petrol engine would be more efficient at cruising speed rather than the start stop section. Yeah I've been going through my dad's various journeys and he rarely does any sort of long distances, it's mainly just work, hospital appointments and the school run.

When you see figures in the above articles on mpg (think they quoted 57mpg), I assume that's just in anything other than electric mode and doesn't account for the £1 for 30ish miles in electric mode?

 

[Matthew.M]

At 30miles a day there's no reason he couldn't get a fully electric Leaf or i3. The Leaf would be significantly cheaper and easily manage that range. For longer journeys rapid chargers are popping up all over the motorway network (and completely free to use) which are compatible with the Leaf (not the i3 yet though).

I test drove one and really enjoyed it. If work didn't require me to do long journeys on a regular basis I would definitely be driving one to allow me to have a more extreme second car.

 

[mr tommo]

I've been driving the Volt recently, my god the brakes on that thing are terrible - it's nigh on impossible to manoeuvre the thing smoothly (and safely!)

I really can't get on with the touch screen dash and touch sensitive buttons on there either, it just feels all very laggy and annoying.

On the road once you're going - it's not a bad car, and by your dad's driving requirement it looks like he *could* get to work on a single charge - but you'll be driving back with the engine on - which can be very noisy and quite a lot of vibration.

They're not a bad first attempt at a plug in hybrid for GM, but there's some serious flaws about them that put me off them.

Interesting, was the smoothness issue due to the electric delivery? His driving is 4 miles town and them 12 miles on the school run and back to work, then 4 miles home. Shouldn't exceed 30 miles per day.

As I said in OP, it would be I the motability scheme so it seems like a decent way to try this kind of technology without having to worry about resale, battery renewal etc.

 

[mr tommo]

At 30miles a day there's no reason he couldn't get a fully electric Leaf or i3. The Leaf would be significantly cheaper and easily manage that range. For longer journeys rapid chargers are popping up all over the motorway network (and completely free to use) which are compatible with the Leaf (not the i3 yet though).

I test drove one and really enjoyed it. If work didn't require me to do long journeys on a regular basis I would definitely be driving one to allow me to have a more extreme second car.

I think the worry with the leaf is you've got you range and that's it. They rarely go far away from home, but then my dad can have hospital appointments all over the country so wouldn't be ideal. I haven't looked into the i3 at all but will do

 

[Matthew.M]

I think the worry with the leaf is you've got you range and that's it. They rarely go far away from home, but then my dad can have hospital appointments all over the country so wouldn't be ideal. I haven't looked into the i3 at all but will do

The i3 has a range extender option - a little motorbike engine in the back which can keep the battery topped up. The i3 seems to be much more highly rated than the Ampera by those who have driven both but I don't know how the costs compare especially on the mobility scheme.

I'm fascinated by the technology and enjoy the lazy drive/low down torque of electric drive so end up reading quite a few articles on them

 

[DaveyD]

Ah I see, so the petrol engine would be more efficient at cruising speed rather than the start stop section. Yeah I've been going through my dad's various journeys and he rarely does any sort of long distances, it's mainly just work, hospital appointments and the school run.

When you see figures in the above articles on mpg (think they quoted 57mpg), I assume that's just in anything other than electric mode and doesn't account for the £1 for 30ish miles in electric mode?

As the engine isn't directly powering the wheels, it'll be running under an efficient state to maintain the charge of the battery when it runs out. That way normal stop/start is also thrown out the window too.

If you manage to plug in, get to work, and get back without the engine coming on - hey presto, infinite mpg.

Their quoted numbers will be equivalent, and will not take in to account the cost of the electrical energy used to get you somewhere.

Once you're out of battery, the car becomes a bit of an inefficient being because you're lugging all the battery weight around and all the engine's energy is going in to the generator to propel you.

Personally, I prefer the way Toyota/Lexus do it in their hybrids with their power split gearbox.

Interesting, was the smoothness issue due to the electric delivery? His driving is 4 miles town and them 12 miles on the school run and back to work, then 4 miles home. Shouldn't exceed 30 miles per day.

As I said in OP, it would be I the motability scheme so it seems like a decent way to try this kind of technology without having to worry about resale, battery renewal etc.

The smoothness is down to the way they've designed the braking system and how the car mimics a conventional automatic's 'creep'. Most normal cars you can use the brake pedal like a clutch to accurately move the car around when parking, but for some reason the brakes on the Volt/Ampera are just very difficult to master and I'd say a little dangerous.

I would seriously try the car before committing to anything though, as they're getting on a bit now and the technology is a bit dated.

 

[mr tommo]

The i3 has a range extender option - a little motorbike engine in the back which can keep the battery topped up. The i3 seems to be much more highly rated than the Ampera by those who have driven both but I don't know how the costs compare especially on the mobility scheme.

I'm fascinated by the technology and enjoy the lazy drive/low down torque of electric drive so end up reading quite a few articles on them

Yeah I must admit it does fascinate me. I love big petrol engines and never thought I'd see the day I'd like to try something like this. Will try to get a test drive sorted on the Ampera for now while I look into the i3.

 

[DaveyD]

The i3 has a range extender option - a little motorbike engine in the back which can keep the battery topped up. The i3 seems to be much more highly rated than the Ampera by those who have driven both but I don't know how the costs compare especially on the mobility scheme.

I'm fascinated by the technology and enjoy the lazy drive/low down torque of electric drive so end up reading quite a few articles on them

Problem with the i3 is there's a huuuge waiting list and BMW are struggling to actually make them at the moment.

The issue with the range extended versions is that it really doesn't add very much range to the car, but most people are buying that one as it's only an extra £2k or so to stick the engine in, and gives people the peace of mind that if their battery runs out, they can at least get home on that, or go to the petrol station and get a fill up.

 

[Matthew.M]

Problem with the i3 is there's a huuuge waiting list and BMW are struggling to actually make them at the moment.

The issue with the range extended versions is that it really doesn't add very much range to the car, but most people are buying that one as it's only an extra £2k or so to stick the engine in, and gives people the peace of mind that if their battery runs out, they can at least get home on that, or go to the petrol station and get a fill up.

The waiting list is coming down as after the initial batch of orders barely anyone has shown further interest. In addition USA demand has been much lower than anticipated so European orders are being given more build slots and delivery dates are coming forward.

I believe the petrol engine will keep the car moving indefinitely at motorway speeds, you just need to keep stopping to fill up the 11 litre fuel tank or whatever silly size it is.

Don't discount the rapid chargers for extra range either - an 80% charge is delivered in under 30mins and I can't imagine it will be long before they're well on their way to making them compatible with i3s.

 

[DaveyD]

Oh, I'm not discounting anything - the main issue with rapid chargers is there's not quite enough of them around still.

I'm really looking forward to having a drive of the i3 - just I know I've seen orders delayed 3-4 months already.

Having a range extender is still a bit of a cop-out though I think, though it's still early days for the full electric car - having driven the Tesla Model S, I'm quite excited about the future of the electric car industry if it helps keep more interesting petrol cars on the roads longer

 

[Matthew.M]

Oh, I'm not discounting anything - the main issue with rapid chargers is there's not quite enough of them around still.

I'm really looking forward to having a drive of the i3 - just I know I've seen orders delayed 3-4 months already.

Having a range extender is still a bit of a cop-out though I think, though it's still early days for the full electric car - having driven the Tesla Model S, I'm quite excited about the future of the electric car industry if it helps keep more interesting petrol cars on the roads longer

Indeed. And with the i3's ~80miles on electric followed by ~100miles on petrol I'm guessing the type of driver who rarely drives long journeys is probably about ready for a 20minute pee and coffee break which would be enough to top up the battery and fill the tank for another good stint.

Rapid charger availability really depends on your location. There's about 6 within one charge range of me! A lot of people don't realise quite how many there are:

http://www.ecotricity.co.uk/for-the-road/our-electric-highway

A few more years and we're almost at the stage where having a 100% electric car could be a practical option for most people. I'll definitely be looking at it in a couple of years time.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Davey, Dunno what your on about with the Ampera noise, it's nothing like a normal 4 cylinder diseasel! Power split is also pretty much identical to the Toyota HSD but the addictional clutch allows mech drive to the wheels so its has a bit over HSD in term of efficiency, but then the engine isn't an Atkinson cycle so is happier with transient loads.

Braking on most hybrids is always questionable, as they try to make the pedal feel like mech brakes when in reality it's doing regen to recover the energy; and avoiding use the friction brakes but of course normal pedal feel in a car is due to it being a lever and piston on a hydraulic system! Thinking back the Ampera was a bit odd on the brakes at first.

I still got 50mpg in charge sustain mode, not bad for a crummy Corsa engine.

I'd consider one if the tax rules weren't changing so harsh and could make do with a 4 seater!

 

[DaveyD]

Maybe it's the crummy well worn in one we had at the office, but at 0 range on the batter, it just feels sluggish and noisy, it's ok most the time and with the radio on you'd probably not notice it as much.

I know it runs a power split similar to the Toyota system, I just like the way the toyotas felt when I drove them, very boring and fulfilling a purpose. If have neither though still.

I know too well how dodgy regen can feel on brake pedal. It all depends on how much money is thrown at the braking system for brake pedal feel an regen capability. It's very nice on most modern cars, particularly the Panamera plug in.

If the i3 were to depreciate well, I'd consider one, but there's too many interesting normal cars out there instead!