Vegetarians are hypocritical.

I agree with SPW there are far more people who seem to get butthurt about the very existence of vegetarians as if it's a personal affront to them, much like the mega-butthurt you get from atheists about religious folks who happily go about their existence. :p

One thing I do think is that meat (amongst other things, fruit and veg imported from other countries/out of season) is wholly unrealistically priced when you think about it, mainly because of the advent of mass-production of animals and all the unethical baggage that goes along with that - what we now have though is a widespread belief that there is a 'right' or societal 'need' to be able to buy a battery-farmed chicken for 2 quid, or oranges shipped from 5,000 miles away for 15 pence each and that any environmental or ethical consequences is an afterthought.
 
The argument that our teeth are 'designed to eat meat' is something of a fallacy as well, whilst we have canine teeth which are perfectly suited to eating meat it's worth noting that in primates (of which I'm sure most of you will agree we are descendants of) primarily use these teeth for defence and a visual threat, a sneer meaning scorn or disgust exposes these teeth almost as a threat to the person we are scorning. also worth noting is that the largest primates (again with similar teeth) subsist almost entirely on vegetation and insects, not animals.

Our teeth are designed to tear meat and grind plant material - we're omnivorous. Yes, we evolved from apes, but we evolved into a hunter/gather species and our teeth evolved accordingly. And we've been extraordinarily successful compared to our ape cousins.

Also, meat plays a big part in a chimp's diet. There was a story on the BBC the other day how one bunch of chimps has almost hunted a smaller monkey species to extinction in that part of the world.

I respect you decision to be a veggie completely, and many of your points I agree with, but on this part I don't.
 
To address the last point, there is FAR more chance of meat becoming an unusable meat source and NO chance of vegie's/nuts/etc disappearing.

I said "who knows".....I wasn't being factual really, just making the point that we can adapt to whatever nature throws at us in terms of food sources.

Why the need for this thread where someone has to come up with a reason why vegetarians are somehow "bad".

Agree completely. I only have an issue with veggies when they tell me I'm in the wrong for eating meat. So it works both ways.

Its fine to eat a cow, but somehow eating a dog is sickening? That makes most meat eaters the hypocrites when you really think about it.

Also agree completely.
 
Our teeth are designed to tear meat and grind plant material - we're omnivorous. Yes, we evolved from apes, but we evolved into a hunter/gather species and our teeth evolved accordingly. And we've been extraordinarily successful compared to our ape cousins.

Also, meat plays a big part in a chimp's diet. There was a story on the BBC the other day how one bunch of chimps has almost hunted a smaller monkey species to extinction in that part of the world.

I respect you decision to be a veggie completely, and many of your points I agree with, but on this part I don't.

I didn't say they weren't perfectly capable of being used to eat meat however that doesn't mean that's why we have them.
 
I used to be vegetarian quite some time ago, but over the last few years I have gone back to eating meat. For me personally, what is important right now is the quality and integrity of the food, rather than the title of the food group in question, be it meat, dairy, vegetable proteins or whatever. I choose organic, free range and high grade foods as often as possible. I feel better for eating meat, though I do have every respect for those that follow a vegetarian or vegan diet.
 
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It's amusing how many people take it almost as a personal affront when I say I'm a vegetarian - usually only after being questioned why I've picked the vegetarian option on the menu. It's as if I've questioned all their life choices and demanded they explain why they eat meat when, with all due respect to them, I really don't give a stuff what they choose to eat. It's not a subject that I tend to bring up ever unless I'm going somewhere that might require me to choose food e.g. going to someones house for a meal or to a restaurant - other than that there's no real need for people to know as it doesn't define me, it's just my diet.

I've chosen not to eat meat out of personal preference, I'm happy to respect that they've chosen otherwise due to their own personal preferences and would be perfectly content to leave it at that. If people are going to make an issue about it then I'll fight my corner but it's a pretty dull subject for me having done it so many times.

As for the original statement posited - it starts from such a flawed premise I'm not even sure where to begin.

This.

I have been vegetarian all my life, it was how I was brought up. It's not something I think about a lot or feel the need to bring up in conversations, it's mainly those that eat meat that need to discuss the subject mostly.
 
I'm a vegetarian because I don't believe we need to eat meat in this day and age, the meat industry as a whole is one of if not the most polluting and destructive industries in the world, it's a waste of land, it destroys important forestry due to soya crops for feed, methane and carbon emissions from cattle and meat transportation top that of all other industries, and that's not evening delving into the ethics of mass slaughter, people will argue saying there's not enough arable land but there is plenty enough to support a majority vegetarian society in most countries, the only real issue I see is the effect it would have on jobs and the economy.

I very rarely drink milk, and I try to stick to paneer cheese, no one can live without effecting the world negatively but you can prioritise and minimise it greatly, I personally think going vegetarian is a good first step due to the meat industry having such a large negative impact in many areas and also is questionable morally and ethically.

I only really ever discuss this topic if it's brought but, it's hard to explain to somebody that they a doing something wrong, (which I believe they are) when they are brought up eating meat, it's like telling them that breathing is wrong, it's just perfectly natural to them so I just keep my mouth shut, I personally think it's a part of our evolutionary process, I think over time we will slowly move towards a vegetarian society anyway, atm it's still to ingrained into us traditionally and a large part of our economy.







That was well put forth and true in many ways.

However, the unpalatable truth, for someone of your viewpoint, is that the very progression of mankind has been fueled by meat - we simply would not have evolved at all without it.

Firstly as a hunter gatherer, then as a farmer, nothing fueled human development more than the consumption of meat.

Our very core of existence and evolution was determined by eating meat, and not just the eating but the hunting - the cooking. I'd suggest that eating of meat was as integral in the widespread use of both fire and weaponry - the two things from which all humankind as we know it were derived - as any other factor.

How about man's first clothes? Could man have developed enough to create fabrics without first having used the convenience of animal skins as clothing? How about the bones used for tools? Or the sinew used for bows, which enabled men to become even better hunters?

The high calorific content derived from meat alone meant it was absolutely vital in our development, a foodstuff that could be salted and kept for months on end whilst vegetables rotted away.

A foodstuff that could be kept fresh (IE: alive) till needed, and not reliant on seasonal crops, what's more stock that will happily eat and thrive on inedible foodstuffs to humans, such as hay.

Whether you like it or not, the act of eating meat is as natural to man as breathing or sleeping and what's more we simply would not exist in the same advanced state as we do without it.

Without our ancestors eating meat, we wouldn't be typing opinions at a computer - they wouldn't exist. Humans as vegetarians would have likely evolved to be hairy grazers like a tree sloth, but luckily we didn't. We evolved to be more like lions and tigers, majestic in many ways but stone cold killers who eat other animals to live.

However, I do agree that the over farming of meat is now causing a lot of problems, and we have in many ways outgrown our natural balance with meat as a foodstuff, so whilst I eat meat and will continue to do so, I can see that less meat eating overall is the only way forward - there's simply too many people and we need to rely on higher yielding foodstuffs which are usually grains and vegetables, but meat will still always be eaten, just likely in smaller quantities and possibly 'lab grown' substitutes will replace meat as we know it altogether.





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I eat pretty much anything but don't have a problem with vegetarians. Why do people get so enraged by the thought of people not eating meat?
 
That was well put forth and true in many ways.

thank you and I'll respond in kind by agreeing that you pose a well reasoned and valid argument, initially I typed out a massive reply but I realised that the majority of it was not countering/commenting on your points but merely serving my own agenda, I don't wish to be tarred as a 'preacher', I'm merely expressing my own opinion so i've rewritten it so as to directly answer pieces of your post.

However, the unpalatable truth, for someone of your viewpoint, is that the very progression of mankind has been fueled by meat - we simply would not have evolved at all without it.

true, we would have struggled during times of hardship to subsist singularly on plant matter, it was a great benefit for us to be able to develop ways of hunting however hunting is terribly inefficient with a body build like ours. We are designed to travel large distances grazing on edible plant matter, not chase down prey, this is why we subsist/ed primarily on the larger, slower animals which would have had no natural predator (save in extreme circumstances) when we needed to eat meat.


Firstly as a hunter gatherer, then as a farmer, nothing fueled human development more than the consumption of meat.

I'd counter that by saying that plants were farmed before animals, if you can grow your food in a single place and thus reduce the time spent foraging for it you have more time to develop the social aspects of our kind that we take for granted today, naturally our ancestors extended this to meat as well as by then this would have become ingrained in our culture (the eating of meat) and as we were far more primitive then we would not have been able to reason that meat is almost entirely unnecessary for us to prosper.

Our very core of existence and evolution was determined by eating meat, and not just the eating but the hunting - the cooking. I'd suggest that eating of meat was as integral in the widespread use of both fire and weaponry - the two things from which all humankind as we know it were derived - as any other factor.

agreed however we'd have been just as likely to develop tools for the splitting of hard shelled nuts, can't argue about the fire though, it makes the digestion of meat in our stomachs less of a danger.

How about man's first clothes? Could man have developed enough to create fabrics without first having used the convenience of animal skins as clothing? How about the bones used for tools? Or the sinew used for bows, which enabled men to become even better hunters?

agreed, this is why I still use some animal by-products such as leather because I can't afford high quality long lasting alternatives (although as mentioned I will always try to source with integrity)

The high calorific content derived from meat alone meant it was absolutely vital in our development, a foodstuff that could be salted and kept for months on end whilst vegetables rotted away.

A foodstuff that could be kept fresh (IE: alive) till needed, and not reliant on seasonal crops, what's more stock that will happily eat and thrive on inedible foodstuffs to humans, such as hay.

a particularly good point but one which is irrelevant and has been for many years, we can store non-meat foods very efficiently and grow it all year round for less effort than feeding, housing and storing animals in their various forms. in fact the high fat present in meat is probably one of the largest significant contributors to most of the western worlds obesity problems, we as a culture have a bad relationship with meat, it's not become something we eat when plants become scarce but something we serve our plants with, a dangerous imbalance which is biting us on the bum now that we have a more sedentary lifestyle.

Whether you like it or not, the act of eating meat is as natural to man as breathing or sleeping and what's more we simply would not exist in the same advanced state as we do without it.

I have no problem with people choosing to eat meat, far from it however whilst it has become part of our culture we still have not evolved in such a way that eating meat is remotely efficient or necessary. our digestive system is not designed to eat meat, we store our food for too long inside us which causes problems as meat takes us longer to digest and begins to rot and putrefy in the stomach causing all sorts of intestinal problems. our jaw is designed so that our teeth crush and chew rather than slice and tear, this is so we can begin the digestion of food in our mouths unlike natural predators.

Without our ancestors eating meat, we wouldn't be typing opinions at a computer - they wouldn't exist. Humans as vegetarians would have likely evolved to be hairy grazers like a tree sloth, but luckily we didn't. We evolved to be more like lions and tigers, majestic in many ways but stone cold killers who eat other animals to live.

it's unknown what would have happened, however meat was much less staple a part of our ancestors diet than it has become, it's was something that was sustainable and useful, it's become a drain on the planets resources, expensive, inefficient and unnecessary contributing to a swath of health problems which plague modern society, the underlying ramifications of our unfounded modern reliance on meat are much further reaching than most would realise.

would the world be a better place if we had remained as hairy sloths? arguably we would say no, we wouldn't be here and that's unthinkable as our scientific advances over the animal kingdom are quite remarkable, however if we weren't here to enjoy them they'd be meaningless wouldn't they?


However, I do agree that the over farming of meat is now causing a lot of problems, and we have in many ways outgrown our natural balance with meat as a foodstuff, so whilst I eat meat and will continue to do so, I can see that less meat eating overall is the only way forward - there's simply too many people and we need to rely on higher yielding foodstuffs which are usually grains and vegetables, but meat will still always be eaten, just likely in smaller quantities and possibly 'lab grown' substitutes will replace meat as we know it altogether.

I hope so, I wouldn't like to think of my great great grandchildren as having to cobble together a meagre existence because of the destruction my generation caused to the planet because of it's greed.
 
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I've always thought the same and have great fun in "baiting" vegetarians sometimes if I find out they are one on the grounds of cruelty.

Once you find out with some that they still eat fish and dairy products and happily buy leather goods then I'm in for a good time as they can't really defend their position.

My other half is a vegetarian but purely on taste grounds

Totally agree. Veggies always tend to be a bit weird as well. I once knew a guy who rode his motorbike in full leathers to the local chippy.

He was a total weirdo!
 
That was well put forth and true in many ways.

However, the unpalatable truth, for someone of your viewpoint, is that the very progression of mankind has been fueled by meat - we simply would not have evolved at all without it.
Snipped for space.

I'm not sure you're arguing a different viewpoint here, lowrider007 has stated he believes it has been part of our evolution and you're saying it's fueled mankinds progression so up to there you're saying the same thing but his point is that now you don't need to eat meat - we're fortunate enough to live at a time where you've got the choice, you can eat meat, you can eat meat and vegetables or you can just eat vegetables or any variation thereof. What you've said doesn't countermand that, it doesn't even contradict it in any way that I can see.

The viewpoint lowrider007 has expressed states that humans have evolved through eating meat and that's pretty much undeniable in that it's an easy source of protein without which we are fairly unlikely to have developed the capacity to even hold such discussions as we're having now. However he's equally right in stating that we, as a species, don't need to eat meat now and again I'll stress this point, we're fortunate to have this choice. It wasn't always thus but at this present moment in time we can pick and choose with little to no detriment to our health provided we pay a bit of attention to our diet (and that's not something that is specific to people on restricted diets, it applies pretty much wholesale).

For myself there's no contradiction in acknowledging that being omnivorous or even carnivorous has contributed to the human species being what it is (we can have a debate about whether that's a good thing or not separately) but still saying "I don't want to eat meat" - it's simply a choice and one that I'm lucky enough to have. If you want to eat meat then good for you but I'd ask that you respect my choice not to, it's no more complicated than that for me.
 
That was well put forth and true in many ways.

However, the unpalatable truth, for someone of your viewpoint, is that the very progression of mankind has been fueled by meat - we simply would not have evolved at all without it.

Firstly as a hunter gatherer, then as a farmer, nothing fueled human development more than the consumption of meat.

Our very core of existence and evolution was determined by eating meat, and not just the eating but the hunting - the cooking. I'd suggest that eating of meat was as integral in the widespread use of both fire and weaponry - the two things from which all humankind as we know it were derived - as any other factor.

How about man's first clothes? Could man have developed enough to create fabrics without first having used the convenience of animal skins as clothing? How about the bones used for tools? Or the sinew used for bows, which enabled men to become even better hunters?

The high calorific content derived from meat alone meant it was absolutely vital in our development, a foodstuff that could be salted and kept for months on end whilst vegetables rotted away.

A foodstuff that could be kept fresh (IE: alive) till needed, and not reliant on seasonal crops, what's more stock that will happily eat and thrive on inedible foodstuffs to humans, such as hay.

Whether you like it or not, the act of eating meat is as natural to man as breathing or sleeping and what's more we simply would not exist in the same advanced state as we do without it.

Without our ancestors eating meat, we wouldn't be typing opinions at a computer - they wouldn't exist. Humans as vegetarians would have likely evolved to be hairy grazers like a tree sloth, but luckily we didn't. We evolved to be more like lions and tigers, majestic in many ways but stone cold killers who eat other animals to live.

However, I do agree that the over farming of meat is now causing a lot of problems, and we have in many ways outgrown our natural balance with meat as a foodstuff, so whilst I eat meat and will continue to do so, I can see that less meat eating overall is the only way forward - there's simply too many people and we need to rely on higher yielding foodstuffs which are usually grains and vegetables, but meat will still always be eaten, just likely in smaller quantities and possibly 'lab grown' substitutes will replace meat as we know it altogether.





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I agree with you for the most part, of course meat was an integral, and, inevitable part of our evolution, just as I believe religion was/is even though I don't believe in it, I'm not sure how you read my post and thought that I was against eating meat throughout the ages, I started my post off by saying "I don't believe we need to eat meat in this day and age", if your an evolutionist you have to accept a lot of bad things that brought us to this moment, even war and killing, without them we wouldn't be who or where we are today.

Edit - Just read semi-pro's post, while previewing this one, yep, thumbs up.
 
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