Very harsh over bumps

AmDaMan · 19 Nov 2006 at 12:14

Right, my car acts like it's got no suspension! Over some bumps it really bangs like the suspension is made of concrete or something! Could any of these affect it:

Valver shocks (it's a clio 1.4)
Tracking is well out (just changed the track rod ends and no one seems to do mirror tracking) :confused:

lowered 35mm
quite a negative camber
Wheels are quite heavy (215/17/40)

It was acting like this before the valver shocks as well. Some bumps are ok, others feel like i've got no rubber on my wheels and it really bangs on the road!

The wishbone bushes, shocks, springs and balljoints all seem ok too and are new/nearly new? Surely it shouldn't be that much of a harsh ride.. would gas shocks help?

On the subject of wheels what other options are they for the Dimmas? The wheels I have seem to have a large inbuilt spacer on them but unlike spacers these wheels mount right next to the hub rather than away from it. Also the offset is ET0/ET-38?

Dup · 19 Nov 2006 at 12:18

Have you got lowering springs on standard shocks? If so, that's the main problem I would have thought.

The camber could have some contribution as bumps are being absorbed on less tyre surface area.

Does this car have drop links? If they're duff then that can add to the knocking effect.

AmDaMan · 19 Nov 2006 at 12:20

They are lowering springs (-35mm) on stiffer shocks at the moment, the camber is pretty negative at the moment too. I'm not sure about the droplinks, but the camber and tracking will hopefully be sorted in the next week, just waiting for some parts.

Matt82 · 19 Nov 2006 at 12:30

with the car on the ground, have a look at the bump stops.

the rear of mine effectively had 5mm of travel due to the bump stop being too long.

i chopped them back and the ride was massively improved

AmDaMan · 19 Nov 2006 at 12:48

what/where are the bump stops? does every car have them? like i said most of the suspension components are new.

edit: don't notice it on the rear but the front is awful.

Matt82 · 19 Nov 2006 at 12:57

if you visualise the damper unit, well there will be what is essentially a foam bung at the top of the damper unit. this is to prevent the damper bottoming out harshly.

thing is, you say yours are new. the length of the stop will be normal length, but youve lowered the car 30mm. you need to shorten your bump stops

AmDaMan · 19 Nov 2006 at 13:05

nothing like that, that I recall on my dampers front or rear..

The rear dampers are an eye mounting (no springs), the front are just regular struts with a rubber mount on the top, that is in good condition, and nothing can be shortened on it?

Enfield · 19 Nov 2006 at 13:34

Perhaps the springs are just too stiff?

Slime101 · 19 Nov 2006 at 13:56

Lower stiffer springs
Stiffer shocks
Larger wheels with low profile tyres....

Its hardly rocket science to work out why it handles like a bag of nails and has zero comfort when driving on anything other than a race circuit smooth road!

AmDaMan · 19 Nov 2006 at 16:00

who said anything about handling? It handles fine better before the tracking too obviously. I had this setup on another clio though and the ride wasn't like this. I expect a harsh ride, that's fine.. It's the banging noises over some roads that doesn't seem right.

MrMatteh · 19 Nov 2006 at 17:57

maybe the springs are just too hard.. they're designed for a valver engine.. not sure how much heavier it is to your 1.4

AmDaMan · 19 Nov 2006 at 18:37

the springs are for a 1.4 mate, it's the shocks that are off the valver, but maybe they are too hard aswell. Hoping its a combination of the camber and tracking though as I cant take it!

PS what did you valver make on the rollers?

MrMatteh · 19 Nov 2006 at 18:43

ah right

got 143.4bhp (at the fly) on the rollers!

had a drag at the airfield today against another valver and a williams. the williams left us standing really and i was pulling very slightly on the other valver

- he got 117atw i think.

can't resist posting this too:

3 wheels!

AmDaMan · 19 Nov 2006 at 19:10

sweet

[TW]Fox · 19 Nov 2006 at 19:11

It is a Clio. It is running comparatively huge 17" inch wheels with what I can imagine are elastic band sized tyres on it.

As a result, the ride will suck.

AmDaMan · 19 Nov 2006 at 19:20

yeah a whole 2" from standard!!!!111one

Don't think you've ever produced a comment worthy of reading in my threads. So err thanks. Yes it's a Clio... and? That means what exactly? Should it have been me that crashed into the hedge then and not you?

I have been in plenty of cars with 17" wheels and far stiffer suspension than mine that feel a lot better which is why I'm looking for help.

[TW]Fox · 19 Nov 2006 at 19:26

AmDaMan said:
yeah a whole 2" from standard!!!!111one

Yes, exactly. Thats my point? :confused:

You get the same thing with 18 inch wheels on a 5 Series - 'a whole 2" from standard!!!!111one'. It was a totally serious comment.

Don't think you've ever produced a comment worthy of reading in my threads. So err thanks. And it's a Clio... and? That means what exactly?

Sorry, not sure I follow. Whats the issue with me saying your car is a Clio? My point is that it's a Clio, and as such, 17 inch wheels are going to have a similar effect as fitting 18 and 19 inch wheels on larger cars - degredation in ride quality.

I am not in any way being sarcastic - I'm actually offering a serious opinion. I think it is your wheels that are causing the issue. What size are your tyres?

Should it have been me that crashed into the hedge then and not you?

I have been in plenty of cars with 17" wheels

It's not the wheel size that affects the ride quality its the tyre profile. A Clio on 17's is a lot lower profile than an Omega on 17's for example and as a result you will get vastly different ride quality.

AmDaMan · 19 Nov 2006 at 19:37

You are notoriously known for coming into threads saying 'you drive a corsa', 'it's a corsa', 'what did you expect in a shoebox' it's boring and no one cares, we know what cars we drive but because it's not got a BM badge on it you try and deliberately belittle someone. Think it's about time you got off your high horse tbh.

17" on a clio sized car is not unheard of is it? It's not like they are running hubs off a mini, it's fine.. and I know it shouldn't affect the car as much as what i'm getting.

my tyre profile is 215/40/17 ..I was in an MG ZR with 17" and 35 profile the other day that was 35mm like mine plus had uprated shocks and bushes on and it was far smoother than mine yet solid on the road.. same with similar cars i've been in.. what's the explanation then?

[TW]Fox · 19 Nov 2006 at 19:40

AmDaMan said:
You are notoriously known for coming into threads saying 'you drive a corsa', 'it's a corsa', 'what did you expect in a shoebox' it's boring and no one cares, we know what cars we drive but because it's not got a BM badge on it you try and deliberately belittle someone. Think it's about time you got off your high horse tbh.

This is, of course, complete rubbish, but if it makes you feel better, so be it. It's the OcUK fashion to invent all sorts of things I apparently think so why break with tradition.

17" on a clio sized car is not unheard of is it? It's not like they are running hubs off a mini, it's fine.. and I know it shouldn't affect the car as much as what i'm getting.

Nope, it isnt unheard of, but you should be prepared to accept a degredation in ride quality as a result.

my tyre profile is 215/40/17 ..I was in an MG ZR with 17" and 35 profile the other day that was 35mm like mine plus had uprated shocks and bushes on and it was far smoother than mine yet solid on the road.. same with similar cars i've been in.. what's the explanation then?

Perhaps the MG's suspension was better setup for the different size wheels - especially as 17's were a factory option on that car. I think you should try and borrow a set of steelies or something, whack them out, and take it for a drive. If it fixes the problem, then you know its the tyre size you run, if it doesnt, you know I'm barking up the wrong tree

Dogbreath · 19 Nov 2006 at 19:40

AmDaMan said:
yeah a whole 2" from standard!!!!111one

Don't think you've ever produced a comment worthy of reading in my threads. So err thanks. Yes it's a Clio... and? That means what exactly? Should it have been me that crashed into the hedge then and not you?

Unfortunately for you he is right, putting heavy wheels on small cars is a good way to create a harsh ride. You are effectively increasing unprung weight which is always a bad thing for ride and handling.

You say you don't remember seeing any bump stops? They are essential items, without them your shocks will start leaking very quickly and you are likely to cause damage to the the rest of the suspension and the bodyshell from the shock loading of the damper bottoming out.

Contrary to Mats advice you should not cut down bump stops when lowering unless the shocks have been changed for shorter ones as well. The bump stop is designed to exponentialy increase the spring rate before the shock bottoms out. With the car lowered you have less suspension travel and the ride will be harsher on rough surfaces, that is a given. By cutting down the bump stop on a standard shock to try and get some more travel back you risk the very problem they are designed to avoid. You can however fit shorter bump stops of a 'stiffer' material that has a higher rising rate than the orginals.