Soldato
Evidently not.
Vettel leaving Ferrari
- Thread starter Aspecto
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Soldato
He'll still be the best driver on the grid behind Lewis probably.
Soldato
Niki Lauda is probably one of the few examples. Won title in '75, '77. Retired before the end of the '79 season. Came back in '82, won another title in '84, retired for good at the end of '85.
Caporegime
Soldato
Quite. We could argue that vettel has had his time but instead a sensible head would want all these title winning elites to remain in F1 and offer some excitement in the midfield at least.
Alonso has repeatedly brought a dog car up in the points and has beaten his team mate more than anyone else. I'll be delighted to see him back on the grid.
Soldato
Renault could afford Vettel or Alonso on less than they were paying for Ric, it's whether either of them would want to commit to a midfield challenger. I think they'll look to bring in a F2 driver from their program for cheap on a year's deal to see if there is any shift in the driver market again. Too many have been scorned by Renault "Loyalty", only driver I could see going to them is Bottas if Merc decide they want to keep hold of Russell, he's already making itchy feet noises stuck in the Williams.
Soldato
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Not sure Alonso would want to come back into a team that wasn't competitive. He had his fill at McLaren. He wants wins, not the mid-pack doldrums.
But he is also vain, and in F1 he is a named champion, as it were, so who knows!
But he is also vain, and in F1 he is a named champion, as it were, so who knows!
Soldato
Alonso has said he would be interested in Renault in an article I read the other day.
Frankly can't stick him and he needs to pipe down and go away now. He gets mentioned weekly despite not being the most positive personalities of the sport.
Better has been full of excuses since he joined Ferrari. It's his time to move on too, although I wouldn't want a young talent being wasted at Renault. They seem really arrogant and entitled, so maybe Alonso or Vettel would be perfect for them!
Frankly can't stick him and he needs to pipe down and go away now. He gets mentioned weekly despite not being the most positive personalities of the sport.
Better has been full of excuses since he joined Ferrari. It's his time to move on too, although I wouldn't want a young talent being wasted at Renault. They seem really arrogant and entitled, so maybe Alonso or Vettel would be perfect for them!
Soldato
Edit, I hadn't seen the next page. Needless to say I agree with JRS.
I suppose Mansell had a pole and win on his part-time return, but he wasn't the driver he was before he left. The less said about 1995 the better.
Same could be said about Prost. He won the title on his return, but made a complete meal of it, allowing Senna to lead in a terrible car/engine combination for a good portion of the season.
Lauda is probably the best example of a driver full-time which has gone to plan. Not quite the same as the driver who left, but he had enough in the tank to beat Prost to the title in his third season back (though by less than a point!).
Soldato
@this_is_gav - I did think about Mansell in '94-95 and Prost in '93, before thinking that neither really fitted the bill. Prost only sat out a year for the Williams car to become available (he'd tested a Ligier, but decided against it), Mansell only doing a few races in '94 and then the '95 debacle sending him off into retirement almost as soon as he'd started.
Soldato
So Carlos had a bad year, as does everyone, no?
Kimi and Seb were mid tier were they? Ok.
Caporegime
It wasn't one bad year
Seb was brought in as their lead driver; and Kimi (second time around) was very much treated as a second driver to him. Race after race he was put on cruddy strategies to hold up opponents or hedge their bets.
Soldato
Because he's desperate to drive in F1 again.
He's not just vain he's still hungry and he won't feed that hunger sitting at home.
Soldato
Oh really? The worlds F1 press disagree and have ran articles on how well he's done/impressed they are, please do enlighten us as to your expert take on things.
That's not what you said in your previous post, it doesn't matter how a driver is treated it matters who they are and what they have achieved. If Hamilton was brought in alongside Leclerc and was 'treated (your words) as a second driver would that make him one? Of course it wouldn't.
Soldato
Kimi wasn't as fast as Seb, but there were many more times he would have beaten him if it wasn't for Ferrari's strategy. The difference is if it was Hamilton he would still probably be faster despite the bad strategy and/or done like Alonso and forced the strategy.
Very sad if this turn's out to be Seb's last season, a career cut short. A multiple WDC and personality. In hindsight, to say the guy lucked into the right car/team was a one trick pony - hardly. I just don't agree. Easy to say as an armchair racer, I simply think its a mental shift & an element of human limitations, life priorities makes a massive difference to a drivers performance (just like job performance).
F1 needs champions, one less on the grid is a sad thing. Seeing how Vettel/Hamilton will fight the underdogs, rising talent vs veterans draws viewers (as Senna/Schumacher, Schumacher/Alonso). Hamilton in 2021 will be (as of now) the lone benchmark.
The young generation in their autobiographies will likely recall racing Raikonnen, Vettel, Hamilton & Alonso as career high's.
F1 needs champions, one less on the grid is a sad thing. Seeing how Vettel/Hamilton will fight the underdogs, rising talent vs veterans draws viewers (as Senna/Schumacher, Schumacher/Alonso). Hamilton in 2021 will be (as of now) the lone benchmark.
The young generation in their autobiographies will likely recall racing Raikonnen, Vettel, Hamilton & Alonso as career high's.
Soldato
Yep, and they'll likely reflect that Vettel was likely to crash into them and that there'd be no conquest once they passed him.
It takes unique circumstances to have rose tinted glasses for the vast majority of F1 drivers. Unfortunately for Vettel, due to his WDCs, he has a good deal of scrutiny. And he's left a lot of evidence that it was mostly down to the cars, not him. A sentiment not helped by his many mistakes towards the end of his (Ferrari?) career.
Caporegime
This is such a weanie response. It's discussion forum, mate, make your own arguments.
I said "Look through the recent history of Ferrari drivers, when have they ever had two genuinely top tier drivers they've let race. That's not their way; they have the strongest first-second driver setup of any team and have done for years. Their way is to get in a really good driver, and then fill the other seat with someone from the mid tier and make them play the team game. They want some one good enough to score points, but not good enough to challenge Leclerc and cause friction in the team." I haven't contradicted that. Seb was brought in as their top driver; Kimi was run as their second driver.
What do you disagree with? Do you think Ferrari are typically running two top drivers? Irvine? Barrichello? Massa? These were the best drivers of their time? Do you think they don't run a clear first-second driver policy? Or that they don't do it to a greater degree than other teams?
Caporegime