Virgin Media. Proof they are working on Phorm

Frank_Rizzo

Frank_Rizzo

Frank_Rizzo

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Take a look at Sean Lampert's CV

(url removed by Rizzo - site owner has removed the site)

Career History May 2008 to Date - Virgin Media - Programme Management

"Personally responsible for the deployment of the Phorm system."

Don't roll over and let this happen. Do something about it today.
 
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Greenlizard0 said:
That's not the point.
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What is the point then? ISP's already know every site you go on anyway due to the nature of their business. Why shouldn't they at least try and capitalise on that? It would, in theory, give them more money to spend improving their network etc without raising prices. It's not much different from the way things like Gmail looks at your emails and displays adds targeted at what it sees. No big deal really. Nothing to hide and all that.

Sure, it's not ideal. But companies want every penny they can get. This is the real world after all. I'd rather they do that via some crappy adds that I can easily block rather than them charging me more for the Internet, or further restricting the amount we can download.

Anyway there is nothing to worry about as Phorm is/will be an opt-in service.
 
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dbmzk1 said:
What is the point then? ISP's already know every site you go on anyway due to the nature of their business. Why shouldn't they at least try and capitalise on that? It would, in theory, give them more money to spend improving their network etc without raising prices. It's not much different from the way things like Gmail looks at your emails and displays adds targeted at what it sees. No big deal really. Nothing to hide and all that.

Sure, it's not ideal. But companies want every penny they can get. This is the real world after all. I'd rather they do that via some crappy adds that I can easily block rather than them charging me more for the Internet, or further restricting the amount we can download.

Anyway there is nothing to worry about as Phorm is/will be an opt-in service.
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I agree.. the internet is a public network anyway, and I fail to see the additional harm of targeted advertising...

I think it's hard to use the invasion of privacy moniker when you are participating on a public network, it is only targetted advertising..

End of the day, if the ISP's rules are they will use PHORM as a revenue stream, you have a choice whether you use them, and if everyone uses PHORM, and you are that concerned with the privacy aspect, then just don't go on the internet..
 
Two MAJOR problems here.

1. Some people like Felix have never heard of it. This is one reason why BT / VM / Phorm think they can get away with it.

By deliberately keeping things quiet, like running the illegal trials in secret, by stifling debate and deleting any criticism on the ISPs own message boards and including the use of an army of PR droids to masquerade as 'technical staff', to unethically editing Wiki entries do they hope to sneak this in through the back door.

2. Some people like dbmzk1 think it doesn't affect them, or they can get around it. This is another reason why BT / VM / Phorm think they can get away with it.

You Can Not Block It
Fact. The technology sits in the centre of the ISP. It is a black box which reads everything going in and out.

No adblocker can stop it. There is no software, hosts file blocking, or javascript disabling which can stop your data being processed. The only way to stop your data being processed is to change to a non Phormed ISP.

Everything You Do Phorm Will Be Watching You
When I say "data" I mean everything. This is not just a cookie tracker recording which sites you visit, this is not just a search engine recording which search terms you search for. This is a black box which records everything you read and write on the internet.

This message I am typing now could go through the Phorm system.

You reading this page, or any other page here or on other message boards (including message boards with private / subscriber areas) would go through the Phorm system.

Every page you read could go through the Phorm system and build up a profile of you.

Opt In
Did the users in the 2006/2007 trials have the option to opt-in?

Did the Verizon customers in the US have the option to opt-in?

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r17671786-Re-FiOS-Transparent-Proxying

Is the current opt-in method acceptable where a 7yo kid can see an interstitial page and opt-in the family PC without the bill payers consent?

And what happens if you choose not to opt-in? Is your data safe?

NO. Not according to Dr Richard Clayton who managed to see the complete Phorm process. Even though you may choose to no opt-in to the Webwise system, your data still has to be processed by Phorm.

Webmasters Beware
This is not only a problem for internet users but also for website owners. If you own a website are you happy for Phorm to process your complete website in order to send your visitors to a rival site?

This is exactly what will happen. If you have a website which sells digital cameras, and has reviews and articles on cameras a phormed visitor is going to allow Phorm to scan your website pages. Phorm is then going to know what your visitor is interested in and will start showing him/her ads for your competitors camera store.

Google uses keywords from your site to drive visitors to your site. Phorm uses keywords from your site to drive visitors to your competitor.

Can Anyone Trust Neil Berkett?
Last year Neil Berkett seemed to change his mind over Phorm and once said

"the company was unlikely to roll out ad technology from firms such as Phorm"

Clearly this is not true as you do not employ a team of 20 with a troubleshooter to "make it work" if you are not going to commit to such a hideous, evil service.
 
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Demon said:
the internet is a public network anyway
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True. So is walking around the shops. But are you happy to walk around the shops with your own CCTV and microphone clipped to your shoulder? The CCTV watching everything you look at, every item you read, everything you say and listen to in the shop?

That is the reality of Phorm type systems. They personally target YOU.

And there are large parts of the internet which are not 'public'. There are many places where you can only read pages if you have registered be it a private message board, or website for subscribers. Even though these sites are private, so that no guest can read them, and no googlebot can read them Phorm will be able to do so.

Where is the privacy now?

Demon said:
, and I fail to see the additional harm of targeted advertising...
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There is nothing wrong with advertising, or even targeted if based on a site by site basis (where OCUK know I am looking at CPUs so start showing me their best offers of CPUs) but targetting ads obtained from data from a camera on my shoulder and a microphone on my lapel is a step too far.

Demon said:
End of the day, if the ISP's rules are they will use PHORM as a revenue stream
Click to expand...

At the end of the day if more people complained to customer services, if more people actually got their MAC and changed ISP, then this disgraceful 'revenue stream' will never take off and the internet will be a place as it should always be - MINE, YOURS, YOUR KID SISTER'S and not some big brother network where we should be grateful for them to profile us.
 
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Is it proof they are working on Phorm now, or proof that they were looking at it in the past? (IE is the CV actually up to date).

IIRC they said they were looking at it, but dropped it.
 
And according to another website, the guy whose CV that is left VM in late 08, after recommending they scrap any plans for Phorm.

Or to put it another, one out of date CV does not a case for panic make ;)
 
dbmzk1 said:
What is the point then? ISP's already know every site you go on anyway due to the nature of their business. Why shouldn't they at least try and capitalise on that? It would, in theory, give them more money to spend improving their network etc without raising prices.
Click to expand...

As if that would happen ? the money will be profits to shareholders and management.
 
werewolf - yes that is a significant update!

I wonder what the official word from VM will be. A few things need clearing up.

1. Why did they employ Mr Lampert to 'make it work' when they officially stated 'they have no plans to do so'.
2. What exactly did the 'testing team' do? They did say they did 'small time internal testing which was not on live users'. Was that true?
3. Will they take the advice of Mr Lampert and scrap the idea totally!
 
I suspect they did so before they made that decision - a lot of companies will have small teams working on different things that look interesting for the future (it's actually a good sign*), even if they are just evaluating it.

I would guess that is what his job entailed, evaluating the technical merits and possibilities of the PHORM system, probably separately from the people checking the legal side of things (working out if it did what they were told it would do etc).

It's fairly standard to do internal testing for a long time before doing anything on the live system, regardless of if it's new speeds, new equipment (be it "server" side or "client" side), new settings for existing equipment.
It saves relying on what the sales people tell them ;) and lets them see how it works on their specific setup without risking problems affecting customers.

*It means they are looking ahead, rather than just reacting.
 
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