Vista Build 5472, improved over original beta2?

Gandalf501 · 16 Aug 2006 at 20:29

Anyone found any improvements on this build over build 5384? (beta 2 milestone).

Its certainly quicker then it was previously. Perhaps better driver integration?

I previously slated the Beta2 release on this site. A lot of MS fanboys slated me back. Kept telling me its beta and I shouldnt be judging.

Yes, im well aware, ive been running vista since the old longhorn days... Ive seen lots of things come and go, and come back again... Some major items have been dropped... Which is why I slated what was was available.. Over XP, not a lot... So lets see what this build is about...

First thing I will be checking...

Networking... In build 5384 it was a mess.

Lets see if they have improved.

Oh, to the MS fanboys, lets not forget that MacOS runs on Intel chips now. So MS has some serious competition. Myself, and a few others may not be running vista this time next year as so many fanboys have predicted... Only time will tell. Anyway, lets go give build 5472 a test drive.

csmager · 16 Aug 2006 at 21:15

Far better than Beta 2, which was a bit disasterous on most PCs.

I can't see that Mac on Intel suddenly means it's big competition - they have 2% of the market, and they're not going to sell it to run on PCs. You still need to buy a Mac.

Most of Vista's improvements aren't 'in your face' - there's so many little things that have improved. Built in SMART monitoring, Resizing partitions in Disk Manager, Different resolutions per user, File Indexing that works, Fast User Switching on Domains. You actually only notice them when you go back to XP.

I had the same experience on XP->2000. Didn't look much different - but I've been using it for a few days recently and there are so many little things that you think 'What? That wasn't in 2000?'

Gandalf501 · 16 Aug 2006 at 23:05

Its still broke. Isnt it.

xyphic · 16 Aug 2006 at 23:45

Gandalf501 said:
Its still broke. Isnt it.

Do elaborate. I'm interested to know what issues are remaining, as I'm still waiting for the next public offering.

Gandalf501 · 16 Aug 2006 at 23:53

What issues remaining? Your joking, right?

xyphic · 16 Aug 2006 at 23:58

Gandalf501 said:
What issues remaining? Your joking, right?

Nope. I see you complaining that it's still broken, I'm just wondering in what ways. I've used Beta 2, and ran across several issues that I hoped would have been addressed, but until Microsoft make another build public then I have to go by other people's experiences. You seem to be an outspoken critic of Vista so I thought you'd be willing to share what you think is still wrong with it.

Gandalf501 · 17 Aug 2006 at 00:17

In case your not joking

The whole user interface. Its got to be a joke? Navigation of files, for instance. Bring up explorer. Win+E. Ok, I can tinker with it. But why do I need a HUGE amount of monitor real estate taken up at the bottom of my explorer window telling me what user I am, and what workgroup I am, what my processor is, and how much ram I have. I mean, is it likely to change in the next 5 mins? Or the next 10? Or the next day even? And although the picture of the computer is nice, what does it do, exactly? I can go on, and on, and on. Throw enough mud, and hope some of it sticks, seems to be the design for vista. Everyone goes on about AERO, how good it is. But then, you have been looking at Luna for the past 6 years... Its bound to look better.

Reliability. Vista degrades the more you use it. (It does with me, and it has with others...)

Security...

DRM

UAC implementation...

Windows Peer Networking. Still unreliable, although imroved (very slightly)

Display Settings Applet. Lets give the user loads of options for the same thing on one panel on XP. Perhaps then they will feel like they have upgraded and getting something more.

The "Sleep" Mode is still there on the start menu. And still is confusing. No, it doesnt switch the computer "OFF". Despite it looking like a power button.

Still hiding the file menu commands by default (I actually want to use FILE, EDIT, etc, I have become very confident in their use last 15 years...)

The Sidebar? Why? Waste of programming hours...

Phew... I think I will stop there, otherwise the fanboys think im ranting, rather than expressing serious concerns about the next global OS..

Gandalf501 · 17 Aug 2006 at 00:25

One thing i cant undestand, why, when I point out the shortcomings of vista over xp, do people become really defensive over Vista. Im not knocking MS as a company. I do think XP is a good OS, as was Windows 98 SE. However MS do have a track record for releasing OS's that are broken on initial release.

Windows ME is the biggest one I can think of.
98 was only decent when SE came out
Win95
Win3.x

By all means, rush out, get a copy as soon as it comes out. Carry on beta testing.. The smart move would be to wait for Vista 1.1

xyphic · 17 Aug 2006 at 01:03

Gandalf501 said:
One thing i cant undestand, why, when I point out the shortcomings of vista over xp, do people become really defensive over Vista.

I think it's because when you've posted in the past it's come across as just being very negative, with little objectivity shown and little explanation given as to why you don't like Vista. Calling people fanboys doesn't endear you to them either!

That's why I was pushing you to describe what you actually thought was wrong (which I do appreciate!).

I agree with you that Microsoft have a very bad track record when it comes to first releases of operating systems. But I can understand *why* it happens -- there comes a point where the need to get something out there outweighs the need to make it all perfect. I think Microsoft got complacent with ME and didn't do the kind of testing that was necessary. It bit them pretty badly.

Microsoft is reasonably in tune with what the 'majority' of their users want. This means flashy graphics, pointless widgets and generally a simple user interface. Security is much more visible these days too, which is why Microsoft have rewritten a lot of the kernel. The minority like you and me are more interested in functionality over form, so things like the sidebar can come across as pretty superfluous. But all that 'form' requires effort, so rather than having all the effort going into getting the basic functionality working, we end up with something that feels half-finished until a couple of service packs down the line.

I think as final release approaches, we'll see a big improvement in the security in Vista as well as the UAC (which, while annoying sometimes, is a good idea). These are the kind of things that 'normal' users are becoming more aware of, and so Microsoft will be putting effort in to fix. Hopefully they'll also be putting effort into getting some of the more low-level (things that normal users won't be interested in) options and settings such as networking being made more functional.

Energize · 17 Aug 2006 at 01:16

Gandalf501 said:
Oh, to the MS fanboys, lets not forget that MacOS runs on Intel chips now. So MS has some serious competition. Myself, and a few others may not be running vista this time next year as so many fanboys have predicted... Only time will tell. .

Microsoft don't have any competition, mac os isn't avalible for pcs and you can only install it illegally on some chipsets. Apple has no plans to release osx for pcs.

Gandalf501 · 17 Aug 2006 at 01:17

Yeah your right, I shouldnt call em fanboys. :cool:

xyphic, your alright mucka, truly.

Your right, users are interested in flashy graphics, and they will go for that over substance.

Still, I would love to be a fly on the wall when they buy Vista and find out the vcd they bought at the market wont play due to TC, nor will anything else they download on p2p.

Or the l33t dude, script kiddies, who end up getting arrested for distrubuting protected content, traced back to them from TC. Class.

csmager · 17 Aug 2006 at 08:23

Gandalf501 said:
The whole user interface. Its got to be a joke? Navigation of files, for instance. Bring up explorer. Win+E. Ok, I can tinker with it. But why do I need a HUGE amount of monitor real estate taken up at the bottom of my explorer window telling me what user I am, and what workgroup I am, what my processor is, and how much ram I have. I mean, is it likely to change in the next 5 mins? Or the next 10? Or the next day even? And although the picture of the computer is nice, what does it do, exactly? I can go on, and on, and on. Throw enough mud, and hope some of it sticks, seems to be the design for vista. Everyone goes on about AERO, how good it is. But then, you have been looking at Luna for the past 6 years... Its bound to look better.

Explorer says no such thing one mine. Just a standard looking My Computer window. The only thing that displays the information you seem to be talking about is the welcome center.

Reliability. Vista degrades the more you use it. (It does with me, and it has with others...)

Yep. But it's a Beta.

Security...

...is far better?

DRM

Will have to be added into XP to make HD-DVD work as well. It's not particularly special - groups like the RIAA/MPAA made it necessary, not MS.

UAC implementation...

Is fairly dire - just turn it off. It will, however, probably stop lots of 'idiots' doing stuff they shouldn't.

Windows Peer Networking. Still unreliable, although imroved (very slightly)

Not tried it, but apparently networking is much improved in the RC1 branch.

Display Settings Applet. Lets give the user loads of options for the same thing on one panel on XP. Perhaps then they will feel like they have upgraded and getting something more.

It does try to make it easier for a moron to find what they're looking for, but I'll agree it's a pain to find things when they change a CP that's been the same for over 10 years!

The "Sleep" Mode is still there on the start menu. And still is confusing. No, it doesnt switch the computer "OFF". Despite it looking like a power button.

Because MS envision eveyone will use their sleep/hibernate hybrid thing. I hope they'll let you change what the button does - they've had enough people moan.

Still hiding the file menu commands by default (I actually want to use FILE, EDIT, etc, I have become very confident in their use last 15 years...)

Press Alt? They've added the most common commands to the bar instead. Makes it a bit easier for some, and it's not much of a challenge to turn the old command bar back on - even permanently.

The Sidebar? Why? Waste of programming hours...

Turn it off?

BlizzardX · 17 Aug 2006 at 12:26

Gandalf501 said:
The "Sleep" Mode is still there on the start menu. And still is confusing. No, it doesnt switch the computer "OFF". Despite it looking like a power button.

You can set that button to shut down instead by playing with the power options, so when you press the computer shuts down rather than sleeps.

csmager · 17 Aug 2006 at 12:27

BlizzardX said:
You can set that button to shut down instead by playing with the power options, so when you press the computer shuts down rather than sleeps.

Thought as much - I've never looked, tbh. I use it on my laptop, and I only ever shut the lid (which puts it into standby). I rarely turn it off.

Gandalf501 · 17 Aug 2006 at 22:54

Ok, here are a few things that I do like about Vista... All is not that bad...

Control Panel >> AutoPlay
Finally, I get to choose what action autoplay takes before I insert the disk. Or, turn it off completely.

Windows DVD Maker.
Excellent. A worthy addition. Very handy to compile all my AVI movies made on my digital camera onto a DVD for family and friends in next to no time.

Snipping Tool.
How often have you needed to capture a portion of the screen. I know its already possible, but this makes it user friendly, and straight out of the box too.

UAC
Yep, I know I have slated it, however the idea is excellent, and not soon enough really. At least it will force software authors to consider writing software that doesnt require full admin rights to run.

Parental Controls
Another great idea, especially if you have kids in the house like I do. Its no substitute for parental guidence, and I dont think kids should be on the net unsupervised (hence why our main computer is in the lounge, the kids dont play with the laptops). However I do think it may make a lot of unsavoury characters think twice if they suspect they may be monitored... Likewise im happy that my son cant play San Andreas on the sly...

Performance Information Tools
Makes routing out rouge drivers and apps a great deal easier. Prevents using 3rd party tools to they same thing (which themselves may be causing more problems).

I know im in your face, direct, misguided, blunt, opinionated and antagonistic sometimes. Also once I get it into my head that I may be wrong, im not bitter about it. But hey, we all have our faults. Personally I respect people who disagree passionatly with me. Its the fence sitters I cant stand.