Vista to be Soooo Popular *sarchasm*

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4713018.stm

UK officials are talking to Microsoft over fears the new version of Windows could make it harder for police to read suspects' computer files.

Microsoft Vista is due to be rolled out later this year. Cambridge academic Ross Anderson told MPs it would mean more computer files being encrypted.

He urged the government to look at establishing "back door" ways of getting around encryptions.

The Home Office later told the BBC News website it is in talks with Microsoft.

Unlicensed music

Professor Anderson, professor of security engineering at Cambridge University, was giving evidence to the Commons home affairs select committee about time limits on holding terrorism suspects without charge.

He said: "From later this year, the encryption landscape is going to change with the release of Microsoft Vista."

The system uses BitLocker Drive Encryption through a chip called TPM (Trusted Platform Module) in the computer's motherboard.

It is partly aimed at preventing people from downloading unlicensed films or media.

"This means that by default your hard disk is encrypted by using a key that you cannot physically get at...

"An unfortunate side effect from law enforcement is it would be technically fairly seriously difficult to dig encrypted material out of the system if it has been set up competently."

Guessing passwords

Professor Anderson said people were discussing the idea of making computer vendors ensure "back door keys" to encrypted material were made available.

The Home Office should enter talks with Microsoft now rather than when the system is introduced, he said.

He said encryption tools generally were either good or useless.

"If they are good, you either guess the password or give up," he said.

The committee heard that suspects could claim to have lost their encryption key - although juries could decide to let this count this against them in the same way as refusing to answer questions in a police interview.

A Home Office spokesman said: "The Home Office has already been in touch with Microsoft concerning this matter and is working closely with them."

Increased awareness about high-tech crime and computer crime has prompted the Home Office to talk to IT companies regularly about new software.

Government officials look at the security of new systems, whether they are easy for the general public to hack into and how the police can access material in them.

Preventing tampering

On its Vista website, Microsoft says Bitlocker Drive Encryption "provides considerable off-line data and operating system protection for your computer".

"BitLocker ensures that data stored on a computer running Windows Vista is not revealed if the machine is tampered with when the installed operating system is offline," it says.

The system, part of what is called "trusted computing" mechanisms, is designed to stop malicious programs being installed surreptitiously on computers.

The Trusted Computing Group has been working for some years on a hardware-based system which is built into the motherboards of many Intel-based computers.

But most people will not be able to use its features until Microsoft Vista is launched.

Critics say the companies behind most trusted computing want to use digital rights management to ensure users cannot use programs they have not approved.


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Vista is going to be so popular. That argument about Trusted COmputing stoppping programs that are bad running on your PC is rubbish. Microsoft should be able to plug holes without having to resort to trusted computing, and the article is right...this O/S is going to be DRM infested.

 

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tbh, I dont fancy buying it.

There should be certain limits with security(is there already? ). Its ok maybe trying to track down people with mass amounts of illegal software, but having a backdoor into everyones PC is just a joke. Am I right in thinking thats what there trying to do? Or have I got it all wrong

If they have a backdoor into a PC that has a ADSL connection is disturbing. Who's to say some smart hacker wont break it and end up stealing files from the world's computers.

I'm also very concerned about privicy issue.

If a guy in his bedroom can hack NASA, Pentagon and the Navy...who's to say someone can't hack a Windows based O/S?

Is Vista already in a hell of a lot of trouble before it is even launched, is the question?

Edit: Personally I don't see what's wrong with Windows XP. Brilliant OS. Very flexible. Most features on Vista will be available for XP. It'll be cheaper furthermore, it's been tuned up soo much it takes little resources
There won't be a reason for me to upgrade to Vista anytime soon. Perhaps late 2008 for me

I would say yes it is. However, will the media highlight the issues at hand? They didn't with the Sony rootkit fiasco, so perhaps they'll turn a blind eye to this, or hopefully see sense and report on the issues at end...if not it's up to the magazines and blog sites.

I wouldn't say Xp is a brilliant O/S, but once you have 3rd party plugins and you know how to use Xp's functions, then it's a very stable O/S...no blue screen at all in my time with XP.

I can play games, run applications and all that that very well...and lets face it it's going to be a few years till games or software take full advantage of the O/S.

Also many features will make their way to XP such as the filesystem, the right sided dock thing and hell if you want the look of Vista just use Vista 1.4 by Jemaho and WB5 - not perfect Vista GUI, but not to bothered about the 3d windows at the moment in time.

Hmm, again with the privacy. Don't know what to make of it.

In this country we're losing privicy on many fronts.

 

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How have people interpreted this as being a privacy issue? It's quite the opposite. Microsoft have file system encryption in Vista, so what? XP has it too. Vista just takes it to the next level. The concern being raised is governments are worried that they won't be able to break the encryption so they are requesting a backdoor instead. They won't get it.

...but yet they bend over backwards to the RIAA and MPAA.

 

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Windows Vista, not for me thanks. I still have a Windows 2000 box running without a hiccup or stutter for the last 4 years, let alone my main pc with XP. I am waiting for Linux to catch up, not long now, and then I will ditch M$ altogether.

Once high quality games run on Linux, and Linux can be a bit more user friendly then I'm going to go down that route as well. It's only a matter of time...

 

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I thought about the game issue and hat is one that keeps me away from Linux entirely. However, in the future instead of wasting money on a new OS and probably new hardware I could give my existing pc a new lease of life with Linux for general computing and buy a games console instead.

Very possible I'll do the same as games start to become more O/S exclusive like Halo2. The GFX cards issues anoys me that you have to have the latest one to take full advantage of games and spend £400 every six monthsish.

Once more users adopt Linux..then games companies will have to develop for that platfrom or they'll lose out - to go two steps forward, perhaps computer users have to bite the bullet and take two steps back for a while and distch Microsoft and hope that games companies develop for Linux.



It will happen one day. Although XP suits all my needs. I don't see how I benefit for Vista, as I lose out on many fronts with Vista.

I wonder how long it will take for the firs Vista exploit to happen?

 

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tbh, I'm still on 2k pro, theres NOTHING I want in XP apart from some of the "prettehness" and I doubt that theres ANYTHING Vista will bring that I'll WANT, but as more and more software is comming with "OMG ONLY XP" setups (MSN, AOE etc note mostly MS software) its not gonna be an optional update

Open source will be your friend.

If companies want to make O/S exclusive appications than that's their choice - there are free alternatives out there.

 

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Can Ubunto or a mainstream Linux be run on a partion on a HDD? For example if I have XP and that has a 100GB partition, with additional partions for stuff like music and data, could I have a partion sa 50GB for Linux? I want to try this Linux and try and make the jump.

 

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...if Halo 2 can be Vista only, wouldn't it be logical for companies to have software that only runs with Trusted Computing chips in your computer? I hope it doesn't happen, but I can see it happening.

 

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Christ, there's so much FUD in this thread it's unreal.

Microsoft are not implementing DRM into Windows Vista (it's in XP as well by the way) to stop you downloading your MP3s. DRM is Digital Rights Management. It is there to manage your rights to digital content you have purchased. It's going to enable you to view that video you bought online, or that music album you just bought and downloaded. Or to watch that new Blu-Ray film you just bought.

If you seriously think that Vista is going to go around your file system and stop you playing your warezed MP3 files, then you are mistaken.

And to those of you proposing to move to Linux, unless that gets a DRM implementation, then there won't be a legal way to watch HD content on that platform. Microsoft aren't putting DRM in for fun, it's because if they didn't, you would come along moaning that a next-gen OS can't play next-gen media.

Edit: Hold on, I need to fit in with the rest of the OcUK crowd. Screw Mikkkkkkro$$$$$$oft!

Digital Restriction Managment is going to restrict what I do with my legally bought media, so that companies get more money off people as they have to buy the same song for example in multiple formats so that they have a CD and a song on their IPOD or MP3 player.

Media will run just fine without DRM - DRM does not benefit the consumer.

Also next gen media is irrelevant for the next few years. Hell, there's no clear winner yet...there's two types - Hd DVD and Blue Ray - one will fall at least.

Yes XP has connections to DRM, and it's bad enough with Xp, however, with Vista, then surely with it being the next O/S it's going to be enhanced, so that people who buy content that has DRM on it will screw the consumer.

 

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dont it sound the same moaning that was about when XP was coming out , its this its that , i am not buying that bloated OS . now its the best thing since sliced bread

After how many patches?

Not to mention 3rd party utilites to keep your computer safe and secure...not to mention that Microsoft will charge people a yearly fee or something for One Care to sort out the O/S - which lets face it should be doing anyway regardless of this One Care product.

You also have features from Vista slipping into XP..again another reason not to update to Vista.

 

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The people who buy Vista will be computer newbies who buy from No competitor talk please, or people on here think having Vista is like having a bigger penis and wave it about.

Vista's going to flop beyond belief, but Nathan is right, we should really judge once it's out and then ridicule it.

As for Managed copying, are you refering to the HD DVD thing? Yeah, it's true HD DVD most likely allow a copy to your hard-drive, but at what cost? Will you need an Internet connection to activate it? Will it be covered in DRM - many unanswered questions about it, and what of compatibility issues, will it be exclusive to WMP10 and beyond kinda like an Itunes allow only playback on IPODS?

Above all Trusted Computing can not be allowed to get a foothold in the computing world via Vista - it will be a disaster long-term, but if people want to buy Vista and think it's the best thing then go ahead...


'From later this year, the encryption landscape is going to change with the release of Microsoft Vista.' The system uses BitLocker Drive Encryption through a chip called TPM (Trusted Platform Module) in the computer's motherboard. It is partly aimed at preventing people from downloading unlicensed films or media."

That above quote scares me. How the hell will a chip decide what's licensed or isn't licensed? How will it know the difference between for example downloading a illegal film and a legal download of a film - both without DRM...I just don't get how it's going to work, so there's got to be something else to it.

 

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Thanks Sputnik.

Also, Nathan, how long will Vista be before it's useable? Lets fave it it's only the past year since Windows XP has been useable O/Sm and even then people have issues with SP2 - I don't, but then again I've got the edition that comes with SP2.

Microosft and it's shareholders have been unhappy at the release schedule of Vista, as they believe and wanted it shipped earlier. This means that in theory the next O/S after Vista will surely be out only a couple years after Vista. Vista just going to be the next ME.

 

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With informed comment like that you could be well qualified for a position such as the IT correspondant for the Sunday Sport

BTW I hear Elvis is indeed alive, lives in Manchester and is a Linux guru, he's quoted as saying he's really looking forward to all the games coming out on it in the next few years...

Instead of making childish comments, why don't you put your views forward and make a rebuttal to my comments.

 

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http://news.zdnet.co.uk/internet/security/0,39020375,39249368,00.htm

The "Trusted Computing" technologies promoted by major IT companies such as Microsoft and IBM could have negative consequences for customers and rival software makers, according to security experts.

Alan Cox, a lead Linux kernel developer and security architect, said that trusting computing has often been used to lock customers into buying a particular software and to prevent rival software makers from competing on that platform.

"What we've seen so far in the games console industry has been directed as if users are scum — 'this console has lots of fancy hardware so you can't run games we haven't written'. This has been a very negative thing and has been used as a way of cutting down competition," Cox said, at a conference on Trusted Computing held in London on Thursday.

The Trusted Computing Group is developing industry standard specifications for trusted computing building blocks. It has claimed that that the technology will create a safer computer environment, reduce business risks and protect end-user data.

Ross Anderson, a professor of security engineering at Cambridge University who spoke at the same event, agreed with Cox that trusted computing could be used to reinforce monopolies and lock in customers. He claimed the Information Rights Management (IRM) technology that Microsoft introduced in Office 2003, which aims to protect customer's information from unauthorised access, makes it more difficult for companies to migrate to alternative desktop products.

"Imagine that all your customers start using information rights management, if you then want to change to OpenOffice you will have to go to every customer and get their [authentication] certificate," Anderson claimed. "Switching then becomes more difficult — it's no longer a matter of migrating the data that you control, but migrating data that is controlled by many people."

Anderson claimed that the PC industry is moving towards a different business model where hardware is subsidised by software purchases. He predicted that by 2008, people may be able to buy an "OfficePlan" for $29.95 (£16.80) a month, which will give them free hardware on which they can use Microsoft Office applications. The increasing use of this business model would have negative implications for free software vendors. "Companies won't let people run free software on the free hardware," Anderson said.

But Trusting Computing is not inherently "evil", according to Cox, who said that the technology could be useful for preventing tampered software from accessing a network, or to help protect auditing and virus tools from being compromised.

"Trusted Computing is a tool. There's a lot of political debate, that it's really evil or good. But it's only a tool," he said "A lot of people would rather it went away, but we only need to understand what the negatives are so people don't misuse it."

One important step would be to stop using the phrase Trusted Computing, as it is "very misleading", according to Cox. He suggested that it is referred to as "proving and provisioning" instead, to make it clear that it is predominantly about approval, rather than safety.

"An approval system doesn't protect you, whereas Trusted Computing gives you the impression that it's your friend," he said.

 

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Windows XP has 'only' been useable for the past year? What rubbish, I have been using Windows XP since it's release. I din't have any problems then and I do not have any now. There has been some enhancements since it's release, yes. But the overall performance, stability of XP has been pretty much the same.

You do not have any problems as you have the edition that comes with SP2, it is the same as installing the service pack or slipstreaming it. Do you think Microsoft compile a special version for the ones that come with SP1 or SP2 pre-installled? No, that's why slipstreaming is available. Good that, eh?

Vista will never be the next ME, also Vista will be a long term OS just like XP.

sfx

May I offer you a tissue to wipe the brown off your nose. Microsoft's Xp O/s is more or less useable and fine now, however, just a few years ago it wasn't...hence the many, many patches for it.

Vista a long term O/S? Million shareholders just screamed out in terror. I love how people have to love the latest piece of technology so when they have it they becomea "tech elite" as I said before...it's just a big penis waving parade.

Vista is impotent of real and proper features, and am sure holes wil be found in it. I honestly wish there was much more in Vista, and much less in some parts of it...but it's not to be.

 

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So you have made a quote from a website and said nothing yourself? Ok so there is IRM in Office which would make it difficult for people to switch to other alternatives. You do not have to use IRM, I know I don't and I use Office 2003.

Who is at fault here Microsoft or the other companies for not taking the same actions as Microsoft?

sfx

For the good of the computing industry, Microsoft and others should not be promoting Trusted Computing, because in theory it can give them an advantage over other competitors..maybe not with Vista (but only time will tell) but I'm certain in time Trusted COmputing will dictate what we can have or can't have on our PC's...it must be stopped before it can grow.

DRM's growing, and must be stoped. As you've seen with Sony...if a company can get away with using dodgy DRM then it will...only one problem they didn't anticipate some computer geek posting it on a website and the whole world of geeks and music lovers erupting in anger.

Also I'm never saying software like an O/S will be bugfree, but Jesus, the holes in XP we're pathetic and should have been fixed early on. Didn't Vista get a code rewrite or something a year or two ago? That doesn't fill me with confidence wither, especially when by release it will work out at 3 yrs code writing, and with Vienna already being discussed and am sure plans are laid out for it at Redmond then expect Vienna three years after Vista.

Also once Internet Explorer is not a part of a Microsoft's O/S it may help to get my attention. I don't mind it coming as an extra installation package (users then have the option to install it or not. on the disc, but it can't be built in to the extent it is).

 

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Thousands of features, please post them...

The O/S that I used prior to XP was Windows 98 or ME. Yes, for the first few years I found that O/S to be fine...I acknowledge that the blue screen or lack of it with Xp is a very good thing, and I welcomed that, however, due to cost, the fact I'd have to build a new PC for XP I thought I'd wait till late in it's life to get it.

XP is much better than 98/ME, however, the security exploits being found in that O/S we're also a turn off for me. Also the fact many 3rd party enhancements have helped XP top look and operate better did attract me to the XP O/S as well.

 

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Security holes that did crop up in XP have never been a probalem with me as Microsoft are pretty good at getting patches out in a timely fashion.

May I ask what 3rd party enhancement you 'needed'?

sfx

Sure: Perfect Disk Defrag, Spybot, Adaware, Anti Virus tool, 7zip, Windowblinds 5 with Jemaho Vista 1.4, Object Dock, Icon Packager, WinAmp, Media Player classic, FireFox and rootkit revealer.

As for patching, some have messed up and not worked. There was a case of a critical one a few months back just failing to do the job, but a big problem for the O/S is the intergration of Internet Explorer, and that really has to go.

 

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You didn't actually "need" any of those utilities.

Patch problems are very rare. Microsoft tests their patches for at least a week before releasing them.

IE integration isn't going anywhere, nor should it.

With so much dislike for Windows I really wonder why you are still using it. Why not try out the "alternatives"? I'm pretty sure you'll be back within a flash, though.

I'm trying alternatives, but a shame Microsoft is such a monopoly.

Also I did need those programs otherwise I wouldn't of bothered with them.

What the hell? IE integration shouldn't go anyway? PLease explain why...may I ask do you work for Microsoft or something?

I'm also considering getting a Apple MAC.

 

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Do you really, really, really think that the vast majority of Microsoft's customers want them to remove IE from Windows? If you do, I suggest you rethink that again, and if you still do then I don't know what to say.

If they were clued up about it then yes, but I don't mean remove it in the tradition sense. What I mean is have an option on install or first start up if you buy the PC to install it or not. My issue is the integration with the O/S...I don't use IE on my PC, but if I want to remove it fully then I really can't get rid.

In case you aren't following... if Windows didn't come with a web browser from a fresh install, how would the average joe be able to download say Firefox? He couldn't. So he'd be stuck with a PC that he couldn't use the 'net on. He'd have to go buy a computer magazine just for the Cover CD to get a web browser. Far from ideal.

As I stated, I'm not wanting removal, but an option to have it or not. Also as I stated my problem and many other peoples problem is the integration of it.

It's all very well saying you're going to try this and that... But until you actually make the switch and stay using that OS for years on end then you haven't switched at all. Everyone goes through the "anti-Microsoft" phase in their life, but eventually they wise up and realise what Microsoft stands for and why they are in the position that they are in today.

I've just used the Ubuntu Live CD and I was impressed. I'm thinking of giving up PC gaming anyway for Xbox360, and going with Linux for pretty much everything else.