VR limitations and why I am happy with incremental steps.

[Calranthe]

We would all love to have 8k 200 FOV Wireless near 0 latency and perfect Graphical Fidelity, we would love haptic feedback suits.

Me I am happy to slowly increment because I do not think we will get the above in 2024 let alone 2020.

The problem is a matter of scale

The first issue is one that Phone manufacturers have been facing since the beginning, every year they improve cpu, improve battery efficiency and storage but all it means is bigger files bigger apps and battery life stays the same.

But let's say we freeze all software developers today and do not allow them to create any new games that are more resource hungry.

Let's look at the major hardware issues.

Wireless, tell me do any of you actually get the full stated AC bandwidth on your brand new wireless routers? Most of us do not, too much noise in the air.

Modern super tweaked special bands can handle just about Vive and Rift bandwidth without too much loss of latency and quality.

Throw something like 8k add in feedback data from haptic suits, treadmills and other things we is way off on that one.

Resolution and FoV, we all want 200 FoV but you do understand that an 8k 200fov is about equal to a 4k 100fov and the more you stretch the view the more artifacts and weird stuff that makes godrays look pretty by comparison.

8k resolution at 200 fov + 90fps + low latency is going to need not next gen graphics but the one after that otherwise you are going to have to settle for low/medium detail and believe me games on medium to low detail you really will notice how ugly those textures are on a 8k 200 fov.

Yes I know new ideas are coming out but nearly every one compromised at least one part of this hardware puddle and remember we froze the developers that will not happen and can not happen in real life.

Those developers will use all the shiny shiny candy oh so desperate to attract people to buy new games and fund the slow incremental progression.

 

[melmac]

Your post doesn't explain why you are happy with incremental steps though?

I think most understand the technical limitations, but, I think you are wrong with how long it will take. They have already reduced the horsepower needed to use a headset and have technologies like foveated rendering in the works to reduce the hardware requirements even further. Who would have thought that we would be seeing the release of a 4K headset in 2018?

Take the Vive Pro as an example. It's £800. You don't get anything with it, no controllers, no lighthouses nothing. What is there to be happy about with that? It's not helping the progress of VR at all. If they are going to charge £800 for every incremental upgrade, it's going to be a rocky road moving forward.

 

[DONOHUE07]

VR needs to be accessible, Haptic feedback suits and treadmills are not the answer, if I fancy playing VR for half an hour, I don’t want to put a on stupid suit and dragging a treadmill out, not that I would have room to store a daft treadmill in the first place. Also, a haptic feed back suit and a treadmill just adds to the overall cost of VR, which is already putting people off. VR headsets will evolve in the same way as monitors. I’m having a blast with what we’ve got now

 

[spoffle]

You don't really have much of a choice when it comes to incremental steps. You either buy into VR, or wait until it's at a point you are happy with.

 

[Begbie]

VR needs to be accessible, Haptic feedback suits and treadmills are not the answer, if I fancy playing VR for half an hour, I don’t want to put a on stupid suit and dragging a treadmill out, not that I would have room to store a daft treadmill in the first place. Also, a haptic feed back suit and a treadmill just adds to the overall cost of VR, which is already putting people off. VR headsets will evolve in the same way as monitors. I’m having a blast with what we’ve got now

You've got it all wrong, when it comes to that point we'll just live in VR

 

[Deleted User 234324]

The barrier for entry at the moment is too high for mass adoption, it is still very much an early adopter tech, but I would expect by 2020 when the 2nd/3rd generation headsets become available with additional tech like foveated rendering, eye tracking and high resolution displays where even a modern (2020 modern) phone is able to render VR content at the required frame rates, then we will start to see VR take off in a big way.

By 2025 I suspect it will be everywhere. It is one of those technologies that once it catches on, it will just explode and be everywhere, much like the smart phone did.

 

[Calranthe]

Your post doesn't explain why you are happy with incremental steps though?

I think most understand the technical limitations, but, I think you are wrong with how long it will take. They have already reduced the horsepower needed to use a headset and have technologies like foveated rendering in the works to reduce the hardware requirements even further. Who would have thought that we would be seeing the release of a 4K headset in 2018?

Take the Vive Pro as an example. It's £800. You don't get anything with it, no controllers, no lighthouses nothing. What is there to be happy about with that? It's not helping the progress of VR at all. If they are going to charge £800 for every incremental upgrade, it's going to be a rocky road moving forward.

Foveated Rendering has been mentioned from almost day one as the holy grail and it is proving very difficult to impliment, My Vive Pro arrives today according to DPD so I will get back to you on my reasons for being happy with that as for 4k well yes we have that but cost + it pushing the current gen of hardware means a lot of unhappy people (not me).

 

[Calranthe]

VR needs to be accessible, Haptic feedback suits and treadmills are not the answer, if I fancy playing VR for half an hour, I don’t want to put a on stupid suit and dragging a treadmill out, not that I would have room to store a daft treadmill in the first place. Also, a haptic feed back suit and a treadmill just adds to the overall cost of VR, which is already putting people off. VR headsets will evolve in the same way as monitors. I’m having a blast with what we’ve got now

Think of the haptic solutions as being in the range of the first huge brick phones, now look at a samsung S9 compare the two that is what incremental shift does but it only works if we get on board and buy the stuff so the next stuff can be paid for, investors want to see people using A before they make A+, Developers want to see people using A before we get AAA+ because that takes so much more investment.

We want what we can't have yet but not willing to invest in what we have to make what we want viable.

 

[Pistov]

Why are they making an incremental upgrade to the Vive when hardly anybody even has an original vive or a rift? More to the point why is it such a ripoff? You're paying all that extra money for a bit of a sharper screen and more comfortable fit and headphones which has been in oculus from day 1 anyway and they also cut 15% off the original vive's weight during its consumer lifetime without feeling the need to charge for it or even tell anyone? It just reeks of a company trying to milk more money out of their customers rather than a company making worthwhile upgrades to their product. But then HTC is a phone company and so I suppose, like Samsung's 'S' phones, they're used to pushing out ridiculously expensive but minimally improved versions of the same thing because it's just 'cool' to have the newest model despite most consumers not even knowing anything about specs and whether they will make a meaningful difference. It's all about marketing now.

 

[FlukeRogi]

Who would have thought that we would be seeing the release of a 4K headset in 2018?

Not me, and I still don't

Why are they making an incremental upgrade to the Vive when hardly anybody even has an original vive or a rift?

So they can point out that they currently have the best spec HMD that's available to buy. As for why it only an incremental upgrade? Because Valve haven't given them a better design with more advanced features. HTC haven't shown any ability to produce innovations in VR hardware design themselves, or that they're even trying.

 

[melmac]

Foveated Rendering has been mentioned from almost day one as the holy grail and it is proving very difficult to impliment, My Vive Pro arrives today according to DPD so I will get back to you on my reasons for being happy with that as for 4k well yes we have that but cost + it pushing the current gen of hardware means a lot of unhappy people (not me).

We should all be happy paying £800 for a minor bump in resolution?

I have no problem with incremental updates, just not at rip off prices.

 

[melmac]

Not me, and I still don't .

Oh you of little faith!!

 

[Calranthe]

Okay my Vive Pro arrived at 9:35am and I just finished my first three hours stint, is it worth 800 to anyone else ? I can not answer that but what I can say is OMG !!!!! i'd pay 1000+ happily for just the HMD yes its worth it to me.

Lets put this in context, I am not a youtuber, not an expert, I have no axe to grind against Oculus or HTC, both myself and wife our primary hobby is PC Gaming, We compare the cost of our gaming equipment to what other couples spend on 52 nights out a year on drinks and clubs or holidays to Spain or France or even on Football if you are a serious fan.

I bought 1080ti's and upgraded our systems to m2 Samsung 950's storage which cost £2,200, We have a Gear VR, Oculus Rift, HTC Vive and now a Vive Pro.

We are not rich but we budget well and have no mortgage to pay or car to run, I save up all year round and then we spend it on what matters to us.

I average 10 hours a day on the Vive (these last 2 weeks Wife is in hospital so that does not count), I do most everything in VR even forum reading and posting (yes it is possible with the Vive 1.0) Raise SS to 1.3 and windows scaling to 125% and the you can use VR for everything without eye strain or harm (I have regular eye checkups) I rarely turn my monitor on except for driver and firmware updates.

I love it (oh and the other problem people seem to have is keyboard entry but think about it how many times a day when typing do you actually look down at your keyboard, most games can touch time fine it is only when we stop and think about it do we hesitate.)


As everyone else has said Vive Pro hands down is the most comfortable headset I have ever worn the balance is perfect (yes I had a DAS for my Vive 1.0) on games like Skyrim, Elite Dangerous and American Truck Simulator the difference is like going from VHS to DVD (yes I know the odyssey uses the same displaces but the display results are very pale and washed out from what I can see) I can now justify all the mods I put into Skyrim VR and can not wait to try out Fallout 4 again.

Performance and sound seem fine but then again I am running a 1080ti i7 6700k and m2 drive.

So yes its worth it to me and I am already budgeting another 800 for Wife's version + 1000 for later in the year hopefully for a double set of lighthouses and controllers.

No regrets and it will probably last a lot longer than all the drink that goes down the lavatory after a £50 night out or the sunburn and dodgy souvenirs of a holiday to Spain.