Vulkan and DX12 on new GPU'S

[Noughtboy]

Hi all,

Very undecided on which on the newest "baby" GPU'S to get to replace my venerable AMD Radeon 5850 which has served me well for the last 7 years

Going on the fact I upgrade rarely, i suppose longevity plays a large factor. My first question revolves around Dx12 and Vulkan. From what I have read, AMD should perform better under these new api's but surely the entire point of them is to level the playing field so it should become a non issue for either red or green, no?

Then I suppose 4/6/8 GB of VRAM. I would prefer to pay less rather more but obviously if 8>6>4 one would assume get minimum of 6GB even though for my gaming at 1080p 4GB should be sufficient.

My i5 2500k should be fine for the moment and my BeQuiet 530w psu as well.

From what I read, 1060 is generally better performer now and probably 6 months out but everyone is claiming AMD driver should turn this around afterwards. Why would this occur given my first question?

I would prefer AMD but not phased either way. Actually swinging toward nvidia because of better performance AND better efficiency.

Anybody care to weigh in?

Thanks

NB

 

[Noughtboy]

Judging on what we have out now in Vulkan and Dx12 you want to go with AMD for the future. Nobody has a crystal ball but everything points to current AMD cards faring better on next gen Api's.

That's the part I don't understand. Surely the purpose of the new API'S is to level the playing field via async or cpu cycles or however it works such that performance increases across the board or certainly on an equal basis.

 

[Noughtboy]

Nvidia's current cards do not have new api features such as async compute being done at a hardware level, Future Nvidia cards likely will meaning the push for most games to use these features in DX12 & Vulcan will increase, so in 2 or 3 years time you may find Nvidia's current cards such as the 1060 and the older maxwell cards not doing as well compared to AMD's current cards such as the 480 which do have hardware support for those new api features..

Would the hardware integration of this account for some/all of the relative higher power consumption of AMD compared to Nvidia? I mean if you are running this hardware onboard surely it would then increase the power draw by something. That would then mean the efficiency or performance per watt gap closes as time progresses and Nvidia has to implement software patches on current cards or include hardware solutions in future versions. Am I correct or misunderstanding things?

 

[Noughtboy]

Usually I recommend a 1060 because it's faster, uses less power, and runs quieter and cooler. But if you upgrade only after many years, I would buy an 8GB 480. AMD cards fare better in the very long term. Nvidia release new cards much more frequently so their older generations naturally fall behind relative to their AMD counterparts.

That sums up my dilemma. Drawn to the current performance and efficiency of the 1060 verses the potential longevity of RX480 IF indeed AMD manage to pull their fingers out of their nethers.

Also, as I am running a three monitor setup, going Nvidia would tie me in to a more expensive gsync verses more reasonable free sync.

Ergo my ongoing dilemma. Preference for AMD but not blind to the Nvidia offering although tempered by the reluctance to get bent over a green barrel!

 

[Noughtboy]

The PS4 and XBox One use GCN1.1 GPUs and the PS4 Neo apparently uses a downclocked Polaris 10 GPU. The XBox Scorpio is also meant to be AMD based too.

Is the implication that future games should perform better on AMD due to porting being more suited to AMD architecture on consoles?

 

[Noughtboy]

Since when was 160w a lot of power. The RX480 uses more power than the gtx1060 yes but it does not use a lot of power when looking at cards like the gtx480 and R9 290x. I agree though stay away from the stock cooler and get a Devil or another decent cooler.

I will refer you to my post above (#9) asking about the "power gap". One of my issues is my computer is on for 10 hours everyday even without gaming and the RX480 seems to chew through triple the power for multi monitor setups which negates any short term price difference in purchase price to the tune of around £12 p.a.

Now it isn't the quantum per se it is the fact of inefficiency. I could be less annoyed if it because of additional hardware overhead giving longevity as asked about in the post #9 above. £12 per annum is cheaper than a new GPU after 2 or three years.

 

[Noughtboy]

It's exactly this, GCN architecture has a lot of hardware onboard that simply goes unused in DX11 as it's not setup to utilise the command system of DX11 efficiently, AMD played the long game a d hedged on people utilising their hardware sooner, it never really happened for DX11. The hardware still requires power for the gpu to work and that power is effectively wasted.

Nvidia has not bothered with a lot of these hardware features and setup their hardware for the here and now, this has let them be a lot more streamlined and efficient for DX11 and require Less power as they dont have the hardware onboard wasting it.

However this does mean their dx12 performance and Vulcan is not as great as they have to tackle it with software only where as AMD hardware gains an upper hand, as their hardware finally gets to stretch its legs and the results speak for themselves mostly.

Nvidia ultimately will have to design these features into their hardware or lose ground on AMD cards, which means they will become less efficient as they add extra hardware that requires power.

I will say look at Polaris vs Pascal in DX12 and Vulcan, if we compare the 480 to the 1060 you will see the 1060 wins most DX11 and uses less power, the 480 reverses this trend mostly in DX12 and especially in Doom Vulcan, although the power remains higher on AMD. You are probably correct you say ultimately it will even the playing field once Nvidia build for DX12 their efficiency will take a hit but performance will improve.

As far as I can tell Polaris is the first true DX12 architecture, Pascal is still designed for DX11, Volta will probably be Nvidias first DX12 focused Hardware, but I expect Vega to be out before then and that will brute force close the DX11 gap and widen the DX12 gap

I wouldn't go as far as calling this short but it is succinct and informative. This to me provides the missing link. Now the power gap makes more sense and I suppose that makes the additional watts easier to swallow AND provides the rationale for the longevity versus Nvidia.

Thank you for this missing information. I reckon that this pushes me firmly towards the Red Camp based on my requirements.

Only decision now is between 4GB for the here and now or more likely bite the bullet for "future proofing" and get the 8GB.

Thank you again for the enlightenment.