Wanting to dip my toes into the waters of Linux

basmic

basmic

basmic

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Basically I have a spare machine I want to experiment with Linux on. AMD Duron 1300, 768mb RAM, 10gb HD, DVD-ROM, wireless and wired NIC.

I would like to try and become self-taught, but I hold doubts in myself - but we shall see. I don't mind reading books/quides.

At the end of the day, my main objective is to run AiroSnort - I've tried, failed and given up with Windows versions of AiroSnort.

Thanks for any help.
 
so what's your question?

if it's "where do i start with linux", i'd recommend you try one of the many Live cds.

something like KNOPPIX, SimplyMepis, Damn Small Linux, Ubuntu etc.

they're all great for giving you that first linux intro.
 
I would recommend getting Ubuntu and then use Automatix (search on the Ubuntu forums). This will give you a very useable system that won't get in the way of what you want to do as it compiles all the video codecs and drivers as well as MS fonts and RAR support etc. (loads of stuff)

The problem I found with Linux is that setting things up is a bloody nightmare. Automatix does all of the hard work for you and although you won't learn a great deal at first you won't become frustrated. There are loads of books available and as you learn you can use your shiny new Ubuntu system to practice on.
 
If you want self taught linux, you should probably get onto gentoo pretty soon, maybe just use a livecd or ubuntu to get the feel first. Ubuntu you could quite happily use without ever touching the CLI, and then you wouldn't really have learnt much about linux.
 
riven said:
If you want self taught linux, you should probably get onto gentoo pretty soon, maybe just use a livecd or ubuntu to get the feel first. Ubuntu you could quite happily use without ever touching the CLI, and then you wouldn't really have learnt much about linux.
Click to expand...

This is a common thought among Linux enthusiasts, that one should just jump right in and learn it as they go. Though this method is most frequently used I'm not sure it's the best. I prefer to see it as AJUK stated. A Linux rookie is far more likely to stick around and experience the joys of such a beautifully crafted system if the aforementioned system offers basic livable functionality right out of the box. Windows does this for the most part and Linux has been struggling to catch up.

For example i give my own first-time Linux experience. I had played with a few Live-CD distros and I was particularly fond of Knoppix. I came across an extra hard disk so I decided to switch a spare machine over to Linux. I chose Ubuntu for its well-known user friendliness. It installed just fine and took me to a very handsome brown desktop envoronment. Then it occurred to me that I wasn't going to get far without networking. I tried mightily to get my USR WLAN card to work but it was a failing effort. I had similar issues with getting my Sound Blaster to wake up and sing. I eventually gave up on the project in frustration. It's not that the problems I had were insurmountable, I just lost enthusiasm for fixing them. If automatix had been around when I did this I think that a lot of my initial problems would have been mended and I would have stuck around. As it was it took me another 6 months to jump back into the *NIX pool. I had a better time of it the second spin around but having a negative, frustrating initial experience was to the detriment of my Linux education.

I think somehow it boils down to a snooty air among *NIX users that somehow they fgured it all out and that new switchers should have to put in the same time and effort that they did. They don't need any of this newfangled automated stuff. It's somehow less manly. That might be the case but wouldn't it better if it was easy to begin with? Wouldn't it be better if it welcomed new users rather than scaring them away?

My 0.02
 
BillytheImpaler said:
That might be the case but wouldn't it better if it was easy to begin with? Wouldn't it be better if it welcomed new users rather than scaring them away?

My 0.02
Click to expand...

Nicely put. I must've spent six months dual booting between Windows & Linux (mostly Mandrake, now Mandriva) with maybes 5 attempts to install Gentoo and was very happy with Mandrake (despite it's n00b reputation).

Gentoo is a bit like taking apart a tv, bike or, er, rocketship and putting it back together with different features depending on what you want your system for. You could turn a bike into a unicycle - it would be less useful for some people but fit into a smaller space (and look funnier if it had a juggleing clown on it ;)). I sorta digress.

You probably will learn more with some of the less user friendly Linux's (as well as maybe find out new examples for the word frustration :p) but there's plenty that are kinda between Ubuntu & Gentoo (and some on either side?) such as Arch (some Arch users are ex-Gentooers) and Slackware and a whole load of others.
 
As long as you stick to the Gentoo manual, you shouldn't have many problems. I started on Gentoo, admittedly it took me three attempts, but I got it in the end.

A couple of things annoyed me but weren't because of Gentoo. Gentoo doesn't like the AMD Winchester cores, so you have to limit the memory to 333MHz. Another thing was that at the time I had a 512K internet connection, so downloading took forever.

If you have patience and are willing to learn, then give Gentoo a shot, or two.
 
Ubuntu certainly sounds the most tempting. Does it have a command-line interface available, like the command-line shell in Windows (ie: Start > Run > cmd)?

Basically I want to run AiroSnort on Linux - but while I'm in the water, I may as well have a paddle about. ;):cool:
 
does linux have a command line interface, are you kidding?

can't say I approve of what you want to do, my best suggestion is that if what you intend to do is hack networks then you should learn yourself.
 
Clarkey said:
does linux have a command line interface, are you kidding?

can't say I approve of what you want to do, my best suggestion is that if what you intend to do is hack networks then you should learn yourself.
Click to expand...
Who said anything about hacking?

All I want to do to is see how secure WPA keys are, on my own wireless network. Surely that's not breaking the law?

I meant does the GUI version of Linux have a command-line shell? I'm fully aware that command-line versions of Linux exist. Sorry, but I am a spaz when it comes to Linux. :o
 
basmic said:
Does it have a command-line interface available, like the command-line shell in Windows (ie: Start > Run > cmd)?
Click to expand...
A command-line is most of what Linux is. (Most) everything is just something else that sits on top of the command-line. You boot the computer up into a graphical environment (if you want to) and this communicates with the commend-line. Make a folder in GNOME and GNOME is really just interpreting what you're doing into a series of commands, in this case mkdir, that it then feeds to the kernel.

It works in a similar fashion as Win 9x in that respect. Win 9x sat on top of the MS-DOS command line. You could kill the Windows process and the computer would still be booted into DOS.

EDIT:
basmic said:
I meant does the GUI version of Linux have a command-line shell? I'm fully aware that command-line versions of Linux exist. Sorry, but I am a spaz when it comes to Linux. :o
Click to expand...
Yes. These are called terminal emulators and every GUI has one (usually more). In the default Ubuntu installation it's right on the taskbar. You cannnot escape the terminal!
 
MrWhippy said:
so what's your question?

if it's "where do i start with linux", i'd recommend you try one of the many Live cds.

something like KNOPPIX, SimplyMepis, Damn Small Linux, Ubuntu etc.

they're all great for giving you that first linux intro.
Click to expand...

If you have a completely spare pc then there isn't really any point in using a live cd version. Ubuntu or kubuntu would definitely be a good starting point. Just dl their install pc and have a go. I also wouldn't bother with automatix etc. there are easy howtos for everything they do on the ubuntu forums and wiki and at least you then know what is happenning. You do really need broadband access on the machine you are running *buntu on to make the most of it.
 
Clarkey said:
can't say I approve of what you want to do, my best suggestion is that if what you intend to do is hack networks then you should learn yourself.
Click to expand...

I must say I agree with OP, thats quite an assumption to make. Many people use tools that could be used for hacking purposes, such as port scanners and the like to interogate their own networks, or to prove concepts. I mean look at the guys own created a bluesnarfing rifle that could bluesnarf from a mile away, just to show mobile companies that it wasn't a problem that just happened in close proximity.
 
What??? gentoo on a duron 1300? Are you out of your mind?!?!?!?!

I found linux from scratch to be a VERY useful learning tool, but I wouldn't recommend it to a noob or to anyone with a slow pc it once took me (this was my quickest time) 12 hours on a 1.8ghz athlon xp just to get through the LFS book, after which ** left with a system that will boot and not much else, theres another weeks worth of compiling programs that you want/need at least! So unless gentoo has some superfast compiling thingy (which it doesn't) Steer clear.

I have to agree that its much better to start with something easy like one of the easy debians , ubuntu or mepis for example, it wont take much learning before you're wanting more of a challenge, like slackware, gentoo or even <gasp> linux from scratch!
 
Greeny132 said:
What??? gentoo on a duron 1300? Are you out of your mind?!?!?!?!
Click to expand...

Gentoo doesn't need a super fast processor. I run gentoo on my 800mhz Pentium3 laptop as well as my 2.2Ghz AMD64 3700. It doesn't take ages to compile most stuff. I was quite suprised actually. After then initial (stage3 so very quick) install, I just made a massive emerge command with all the apps I wanted and left it over night. In the morning, nice system all ready to go. Its only really big stuff like X and firefox that took a long time. stuff like openbox, rox were very quick, even mplayer was suprisingly fast to compile.
 
I know you dont need a fast cpu to run it but really man, I've been compiling LFS for years now and it takes forever on a 1.8 xp, how much of a head start does a stage three give you? I think I was once told that stage 2 is something like what you and up with after doing the LFS book, which aint much.
 
Stage3 is basically a binary compiler chain, and the core system scripts installed from binaries. I think you can use a precompiled kernel, but I always compile my own. Tbh the only difference between the gentoo stages is time, I wouldn't say stage one is that much more complicated than 2 or 3.

Basically Stage one is an install from bootstrap.
Stage 2 is with a binary compiler chain but thats it
Stage 3 is with mostly binaries (used mainly if there is no network access, as was my case)

Also of note is that I did try the new gentoo graphical installer, but it didnt work! So i had to do it manually.
 
I might give it a whirl when I have a spare weekend, just in the process of upgrading to 64bit so after I try Slamd to see if all this 64bit stuff is worth the hassle just yet I'll give it a go. If I decide to stick with a 32bit system I'll probably end up back with LFS, a different beast altogether but better the devil you know I say :)

EDIT: Sorry for going a bit off topic with those last few posts
 
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