Water cooling vs Air?

jonogodden · 20 Feb 2009 at 21:00

Would i notice a big difference in cooling if i had water cooling opposed to 6 fans in a front/bottom to back/top cycle and a top rated heatsink and fan in my Cosmos S?

Whats the deal with water cooling anyway? Is it safe? Are there non conductive liquids that can be used?

Also if i decided to use watercooling should i build it myself or buy a Kit? If a kit which kit?

Any information about how water cooling works and comparison stats between water and air would be greatly appreciated.

spitzoid · 20 Feb 2009 at 21:17

Not much difference in idle temps but when it comes to load temps then definitely water cooling comes out on top. Therefore, higher overclocks can be achieved with w/c.

I was sceptical of water cooling for a long time but then just decided to give it a go. I would not go back to air now.

I used a kit, Swiftech H2O-220 Apex Ultima Watercooling Kit, and I've got to say that I could not be happier with it. Quality components, simple instructions.

Some people will say that you should chose everything for yourself. However, I found that there were so many differing opinions that it became more and more confusing after each question I asked. Decided to put my faith in a reputable company's, high-end kit.

w3bbo · 20 Feb 2009 at 21:18

The Search function is a wonderful tool.

spitzoid · 20 Feb 2009 at 21:21

w3bbo said:
The Search function is a wonderful tool.

Yeah, if he's lucky he might be able to find helpful answers like this one. *shakes head*

cje · 20 Feb 2009 at 21:38

I'm getting 30 degrees with 1.55vcore on idle, with a Noctua heatsink. However, with IntelBurn test, temperatures will soar.

That's where watercooling comes in. The max voltage I can run on air is 1.52 actual, 1.475 in BIOS. That results in a max temp of 70 degrees when using Intel Burn Test. Unfortunately, that just isn't quite enough voltage to run my Q6600 at 3.6. So, I'll have to be happy with 3.2 with temps maxing out at 55 degrees.

mythrandyr · 20 Feb 2009 at 21:47

well, i use air. Im' using an Antec Skeleton Performance Chassis in conjunction with a Zalman CNPS9700 (its either that one or the CNPS9500A, they both look alike to me and without checking my rig i cant see which) and i don't overclock my main system but the cpu temp stays at 20 degrees and overall system temp stays at 24 degrees.

I've had the Thermaltake armor LCS case and the Thermaltake Tai Chi, the air cooling that i have now cools the system better than either of these cases did.

The trouble with LCS system is that it only cools the CPU well. Any parts that are not connected to the lcs system will still run at standard temps. Air is different since it circulates throughout the entire system keeping the system cooler over all rather than *just* the CPU.

The other problem with LCS is that it all works great until it goes bump. If you dont have any back up cooling you wont even be able to start you're pc if you're pump blows for example. I've seen a lot of LCS systems go wrong in the past, enough to know that air is a cheaper and more reliable system to stick with for the time being, i personally won't touch LCS for a long time. It cost's a lot of money over time to maintain and if it goes pop, you're screwed and it's not like you can get LCS parts from any old computer shop like you can with fans.

jonogodden · 20 Feb 2009 at 21:49

w3bbo said:
The Search function is a wonderful tool.

Yeah it's amazing. Search engines are brilliant too, did you know search engines are the most common internet homepages?

However that fact remains that when you ask a question yourself you are able to get an answer taylored to you specifically. Plus any intelligent person knows you must cross reference with sources of information so why cant i ask my question here AND search the net.

So if you don't have anything useful to add don't waste your time and mine

MikeTimbers · 20 Feb 2009 at 22:43

Nice. w3bbo is one of the most knowledgeable water-coolers on here and you've asked him not to help.

MikeTimbers said:
Those who can spec you prefer to see a little work put in by you rather than just saying "spec me".

The reasons are to do with what you're trying to achieve. Firstly, water-cooling isn't like building a computer. It's much more personal. It's about doing some research, checking reviews, looking around for systems in the same case as yours, learning what's possible and what's not, what's truth and what's BS.

Secondly, there are three reasons for water-cooling.

1) You want to over-clock to a degree where air-cooling is either impossible or too noisy so water allows higher voltages and more heat generation without killing components.

2) You want your system to be midly over-clocked but you want silence.

3) You want it to look "kewl".

The solutions required for 1 and 2 are different. And I don't care about 3.

So, if you want some practical helpful advice, take a look via your favourite search engine for "waterblocks for 4850", "drive bay reservoirs" "775 waterblocks" etc. and follow the link in my sig to do some reading from OCUK's very own forums.

Then come back with what you think would be a good spec and we'll help with counter-suggestions and constructive criticisms.

Does that sound fair?

A search would have brought up this response. Now you can ignore this response too.

tipes · 20 Feb 2009 at 22:58

MikeTimbers said:
Nice. w3bbo is one of the most knowledgeable water-coolers on here and you've asked him not to help.

A search would have brought up this response. Now you can ignore this response too.

A very balanced reply I thought - from a man in the know with plenty of W/C experience.

We will all try to help people on here but you need to do some leg work yourself so that at least you have an idea of what you wan't to achieve.

Mark

w3bbo · 20 Feb 2009 at 23:43

I haven't got a problem with helping people, I have done this countless times in the past (check the majority of my posts) but there comes a point where you get fed up of answering the same questions and spoon feeding lazy people.

The forums are a community and in this community there will inevitably be enthusiasts at all skill/knowledge levels. However, when people jump straight to asking questions without first reading the stickies or gaining the most basic knowledge and understanding from this and the many other forums and information available on the internet it becomes frustrating and tiresome.

I apologise if my initial response came across as abrupt but it's insulting to have people asking simple questions which are answered in the stickies by people who have put in the time and effort to create guides for the benefit of newcomers (see Mikes signature for example).

spitzoid · 21 Feb 2009 at 00:12

The stickies may be great for people who have got the time to read the whole thing (as well as reading all the info on the links inside them) but some people don't actually have that time and prefer to ask simple questions in the hope that they get simple answers.

It is not insulting of the OP to ask the question he did. Just because MikeTimbers seems to think that you are some sort of water-cooling guru it doesn't mean that you are - I've never heard of you - and you shouldn't be insulted by people asking questions, that is crazy.

To be perfectly honest I don't think that the sticky that you have pointed to is very well written or organized (personal opinion) and I don't think that the OP could have found the answers to his questions easily.

mythrandyr · 21 Feb 2009 at 00:23

i don't want to be sounding like i am sticking my nose in so please don't missunderstand me but also don't overlook newcomers to the site, i'm a new comer myself and this forum is much like any other forum to me however to some members who may not be big on forums or just starting out on the internet they may find the concept of being on their own to browse through the threads etc... a bit daunting, it might just be so much easier for them to ask the question and just go from their, if their are stickies on any given subject then shouldnt they be pointed in the right direction instead of facing ridicule? I mean it may sound silly but some people don't know what search terms to use or may be unfamiliar with how search bars work on forums

w3bbo · 21 Feb 2009 at 01:39

spitzoid said:
The stickies may be great for people who have got the time to read the whole thing (as well as reading all the info on the links inside them) but some people don't actually have that time and prefer to ask simple questions in the hope that they get simple answers.

It is not insulting of the OP to ask the question he did. Just because MikeTimbers seems to think that you are some sort of water-cooling guru it doesn't mean that you are - I've never heard of you - and you shouldn't be insulted by people asking questions, that is crazy.

To be perfectly honest I don't think that the sticky that you have pointed to is very well written or organized (personal opinion) and I don't think that the OP could have found the answers to his questions easily.

What would be the difference in someone writing the same info that is in the sticky? If he hasn't got time to read that then he won't have time to read a reply. If time is such a factor then Watercooling is perhaps not the best of idea anyway so your reply is not very well thought out now is it. Time is no excuse not to follow simple forum etiquette.

I am not insulted by questions and I don't put myself on any sort of guru pedestal nor do I crave to be held in such high regard, as flattering as it is. I help out when I can, pass on knowledge I have gained through experience and READING but prefer to help out those who are willing to put the time and effort into something themselves because if someone cannot find the time to read a sticky covering the basics, do a little research or have the common sense to think maybe, just maybe a watercooling question such as this would have been asked before on an overclocking enthusiast forum then the outlook is not good.

If you don't think the sticky is well written or organised then maybe write one up yourself? I would love to see what you have to say tbh.

mythrandyr said:
i don't want to be sounding like i am sticking my nose in so please don't missunderstand me but also don't overlook newcomers to the site, i'm a new comer myself and this forum is much like any other forum to me however to some members who may not be big on forums or just starting out on the internet they may find the concept of being on their own to browse through the threads etc... a bit daunting, it might just be so much easier for them to ask the question and just go from their, if their are stickies on any given subject then shouldnt they be pointed in the right direction instead of facing ridicule? I mean it may sound silly but some people don't know what search terms to use or may be unfamiliar with how search bars work on forums

Anyone who signs up to any forum should at least take the time to have a browse first. How hard is it to click search (self explanitory) and type 'watercooling'.

Regardless, I think I have made my point. Peace.

setter · 21 Feb 2009 at 01:49

Interesting thread, i currently run my q6600 @3.8ghz under air, water cooling is something i find very intriguing, ive got my current setup at 3.8ghz, 1.50265, in bios, 1.496 idle, 1.512 at load. To a noob like me water cooling seems very complicated, i like to push the boundaries of my kit and water cooling sounds like the next step.

w3bbo · 21 Feb 2009 at 01:51

It is worthwhile under certain circumstances but you mustn't fall into the trap that watercooling= higher performance as this is not always the case

.

setter · 21 Feb 2009 at 02:02

w3bbo said:
It is worthwhile under certain circumstances but you mustn't fall into the trap that watercooling= higher performance as this is not always the case.

Silence would be nice mate, my whole rig is currently cooled by 5x2000 rpm fans run of a cheapy akasa fan controller, my q6600 is a nice clocking chip, 1.2750 vid batch no L803A746 Which i beleive w3bbo is a pretty late model, im thinking of geting a q9550/9650 to see how i could push it on good air cooling, six months ago i knew sod all about overclocking, very addictive habit

spitzoid · 21 Feb 2009 at 02:03

w3bbo said:
If time is such a factor then Watercooling is perhaps not the best of idea anyway so your reply is not very well thought out now is it.

Pfft. Perhaps you should change your username to "The Patroniz0r"?

I'm certainly not going to follow your particular set of forum rules, despite the level of expertise you clearly think you have on the matter.

Each to their own.

Free East Timor.

w3bbo · 21 Feb 2009 at 02:11

setter said:
Silence would be nice mate, my whole rig is currently cooled by 5x2000 rpm fans run of a cheapy akasa fan controller, my q6600 is a nice clocking chip, 1.2750 vid batch no L803A746 Which i beleive w3bbo is a pretty late model, im thinking of geting a q9550/9650 to see how i could push it on good air cooling, six months ago i knew sod all about overclocking, very addictive habit

You have done well to get 3.8 out of a later model which by all accounts don't seem to clock as good as the earlier ones - nice one! Silence is something watercooling can provide if done right and using the correct equipment although there will still be some noise as you will still need fans for the radiator unless you plan on using something passive such as a resorator.

If you want performance and air cooling but are sick of the noise then try using a Thermalright Ultra with a Noctua fan or if price is an issue get a Xigmatek S1283 with a Yateloon SL12 fan. Both a very good aircoolers/fans in their own right.

DJ_Switch · 21 Feb 2009 at 02:12

w3bbo said:
Anyone who signs up to any forum should at least take the time to have a browse first. How hard is it to click search (self explanitory) and type 'watercooling'.

This is a perfectly fair point to be honest. From reading these forums I've, in the past 4 months, done my first (solo)build, over clock and most recently watercooling install and without a "spec me" thread. There are few questions to be asked such as those the OP is asking that aren't either broken down at the top of the page or hard to find with a couple of minutes browsing.

Very few people here are paid to help and as such their expertise is and time spent helping others is greatly appreciated. It is such people that make this site such a useful and helpful community. To be given a pointer to the search function is not rude unlike the reaction to that. Even as someone who mostly reads the site more than posting I'd have to point out that the same questions and threads day in day out is tedious although to have taken the time to collate and present good information on the very questions that are being asked only for others not to bother reading it and then insult those that point you in the direction is pretty out of order.

I wouldn't normally make such a post although from having obtained about 70% of the info I needed to both overclock and get into watercooling from the stickies alone I think it is worth someone pointing you there and not getting annoyed about it.

Anyway...this site is an excellent resource and with a small look you'll find everything you need, certainly the basics.

w3bbo · 21 Feb 2009 at 02:18

spitzoid said:
Pfft.

Maybe, instead of being so prickly about people not following your particular set of forum rules, you should open your mind to the fact that not everyone has access to the internet for extended periods of time.

I don't know why you seem so intent on baiting me :confused:

. They are not MY rules, I was simply making a statement. If the OP does not wish to follow my advice then it is his prerogative. I was simply stating that using the search function would give him all the info he requires, when he requires it/when he has the time. If he then requires further specific info, I and many others will be only too happy to help out.

If you are so concerned why not stop bickering and baiting and answer the OP? After all you have had a go at me, at Mike, at the sticky. Let's see what wealth of knowledge you can provide instead of posting derogatory comments to fellow forum members.