Water or Phase..

Tbh, and this is coming from some1 who doesnt know the laws of refridgerators....but if some1 is operating outside of the law, as stated by philstanbridge, then surely it should be the duty of the members of this forum to alert other members of their dealings. At the end of the day, we are all enthusiasts who browse this forum, and surely we all expect the best performance from the best parts, and dont want to be flogged off by some1 who has knocked together something illegally. So therefore, if any1 has bought a phase cooling unit, that has failed, and either the warranty has been void, or money has not been given back for whatever reason, then surely the provider of the phase unit in question should be named so that others who may be interested in buying a phase unit know to stay well clear of this person. As far as I realize, the workings with fridge units can be hazardous, and ofc, no1 here wants their phase unit leaking all over their floor etc etc etc.

I know that we arent allowed to list other sellers or providers of products on this forum, but are we allowed to name and shame traders who illegally provide sub-standard products outside of the law? And considering they would be trading outside of the law, then their business practice wont really matter? Its just an idea, maybe a mod can comment on this?
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The current legality relates to the handling of any ozone depleting substance.

Whilst refrigerants such as r402a (due to 38% r22 content) are ozone depleting - many others like r134a, r290, r404a, r507 aren't.

From April this year (now) it's manditory for refrigeration suppliers to check that an engineer has at least C+G 2078 certification before they can be sold refrigerant.

Currently it is legal for a non certified engineer to posses and charge a system with any refrigerant not outlawed by the Montreal protocol, but as of July this too will become illegal. Will it be inforced, especially in this community? Unlikely...

A big point - A Prometia/Vapo builder being "qualified" to work with refrigerants means nothing to the quality of the end product. To get the basic C+G certification costs ~£250 and is exceptionally easy.

Assuming this builder doesn't have certification (which he might well have) then it would be very easy for him to get it. Would it change anything if he did?

Of course not, his products would be exactly the same. The only people in this area who need to worry about "legality" are people like Phil who are operating a company and therefore responsible for what they provide.

This is a tight community, reputation means a lot to the buyers. Sooner or later the bad reputation will build up and the bad builders dissappear. Where's your warranty now...?

Phil said it best - "You get what you pay for"
 
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Agreed,

Mole is not only an expert in this field,he also has passion.

I have full faith in his support

As much as he has in his custom units :)
 
Amazing really, how we got into such indepth discussions about the finer points of phase systems and their buiders and how some are far superior and some maybe not so, just from me posting up a few pics..

Anyway, I'm more than happy with my little system and I'm sure it'll serve me well :)

Once I get it all setup properly I shall post back some results and see how you guys think it fairs.

Thanks again all

Si :)
 
Please be aware that pointing fingers isn't the way to go here, unless you know what you're saying is true.

Philstanbridge can't really get into arguments, as it's his business and livelyhood at stake.

If you look at a gray mole unit, and compare it to some of the above units, the differences are like night and day. Gray's units are finished off to a tea, no wires hanging, everything insulated, neat and tidy, colour co-ordinated to your desires etc etc.

I will end on a note that a LOT of discussion has been had over at phil's place, regarding the quality of these ebay jobs, advertising mods etc, and it seems the work of SOME of these guys is very shoddy indeed.
 
Seems everyone is insistant on making me feel awful about my purchase and how terrible it must be as its not 1 of the selected popular builders models :rolleyes: :(

Well, I'm sorry, if I'd have known I would have bought from 1 of those guys maybe, but they were'nt known to me and certainly non of their goods were on offer at the time and as soon as I wanted them, so you know...

If it all goes **** up for me then I shall have learnt a lesson, and maybe I'll go to 1 of these professionals next time, but for now its working for me, I got a great deal and its my first time with this stuff so I'm happy :)

I'm just looking forward to getting my shiny new phase setup for the first time and seeing what I can do with it :D :D

Thanks again
Si.
 
Oh, oh can I join in....

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:D
 
Ah Sipha mate, not trying to make you feel bad. This world is all about experience, and gaining it =D As has been mentioned earlier (and is the same with most product lines), what you pay for is what you often get. I think your investment was a wise one, but one on which you can base your phase-cooling experience =D
 
Thanks Schnippzle, I think that makes a lot of sense, its all about the learning process with this type of thing, just hoping what I have now will be good enough to serve me well for the foreseeable future :)
 
Just curious, how much maintenenance does Phase setups need i.e. lifespan etc? how liable are these to breakdown?

Does that sound a daft question? :rolleyes: lol
 
They should last a reasonable amount of time, break downs can happen any time, compressor failure mechanical or electrical, pipe work can fratcure due to vibration.

Maintenance wise check electrical connections and brush the condenser every couple of months.

Rob
 
philstanbridge said:
I'm not trying to point the finger at any one person in particular. All I'm saying is that between myself and a certain other reputable engineer in the UK we have had 6 units back for repair within a month.
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bwahaha

not trying to point the finger (especially not with no evidence, surely not).. but I will anyway at everyone except me and my best phase making buddy who must be seeing market share slip away..

philstanbridge said:
What really gets me though is the fact you get people trying to make a legitimate living out of this trade, and then you get people doing it "on the side" and stealing all the business because it's a couple of hundred quid cheaper.
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what really gets you is that people are offering services for £250-£400 that you offer for double that, none of this tosh about making a living out of it.. you try and make a living out of selling watercooling installs too, does it annoy you that people can do it themselves "on the side"?? business is business, not a charity, if someone can do it cheaper than you then you've got a problem.

Please Phil, stop badmouthing your competition in an attempt to justify your silly prices.
 
matt100 said:
what really gets you is that people are offering services for £250-£400 that you offer for double that, none of this tosh about making a living out of it.. you try and make a living out of selling watercooling installs too, does it annoy you that people can do it themselves "on the side"?? business is business, not a charity, if someone can do it cheaper than you then you've got a problem.

Please Phil, stop badmouthing your competition in an attempt to justify your silly prices.
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Well said, it is really annoying that people dont offer competitive prices for the same amount of workmanship involved - that is questionable all the same . .

The very same can be said for computer hardware sellers (points finger somewhere) . . . .
 
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matt100 said:
bwahaha

not trying to point the finger (especially not with no evidence, surely not).. but I will anyway at everyone except me and my best phase making buddy who must be seeing market share slip away..

what really gets you is that people are offering services for £250-£400 that you offer for double that, none of this tosh about making a living out of it.. you try and make a living out of selling watercooling installs too, does it annoy you that people can do it themselves "on the side"?? business is business, not a charity, if someone can do it cheaper than you then you've got a problem.

Please Phil, stop badmouthing your competition in an attempt to justify your silly prices.
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Edited: I don't need to justify myself, especially on someone else's forum.
 
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ArchAnGeL said:
what happened to that drive shroud?
I am considering bortrowing that idea btw :)
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Those pics arn't quite what it look like now. Ive not made and fitted the shroud. I basically cut up one of the stock 120mm Lian Li fans to make the shroud, then fitted neoprene gaskets to the sides of it to make as much of an airtight fit as possible. This allowed my to gain a few mm, so that the Phase evap head bolts didn't interfere with the rad, and also the so that the pci plates didn't interefere with the back of the rad. With the shroud maounted, I fitted the fan on the back of the case, and a fangrill/dust filter on the back of that. Its quite neat if I can say so myself. :) The only issue that ive come across, is that the rad is so close to the side of the case, that I might have to modify the rear sidepanel mounting rail a bit.(Did you have this issue ArchAnGeL?) Nothing a dremel wont fix though. ;)
 
I meant the one that was going to cover the hard drives.

I take it you are talking about the radiator mount. I didn't have any issues with the clearance of the bolts on the standard mach head (better picture below). Not sure if the bolts of the new mounting will cause problems though.

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I have the fan connected directly to the rear of the case then the rad but large screws which just reach through the rad from the back of the case. I am actually considering mounting a 120.2 rad in the top of the case and adding northbridge water cooling. Then using that rear hole to suck more fresh air into the case.
 
Sipha said:
Seems everyone is insistant on making me feel awful about my purchase and how terrible it must be as its not 1 of the selected popular builders models :rolleyes: :(

Well, I'm sorry, if I'd have known I would have bought from 1 of those guys maybe, but they were'nt known to me and certainly non of their goods were on offer at the time and as soon as I wanted them, so you know...

If it all goes **** up for me then I shall have learnt a lesson, and maybe I'll go to 1 of these professionals next time, but for now its working for me, I got a great deal and its my first time with this stuff so I'm happy
I'm just looking forward to getting my shiny new phase setup for the first time and seeing what I can do with it

Thanks again
Si.
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Wouldn't worry too much mate. For a few quid (depending on who you goto) you should be able to get any problems sorted long after the official warranty has expired. The price you paid for that unit was great tbh, performance (assuming the probe reads correctly) is well up there for 1/2 the price. Even _if_ things do go **** up the money you saved should cover the repairs no problem (depending where you look)

Not wanting to thread crap, but can certainly vouch for Gray Mole. Had 4 units off him now (regassed/modded Mach1, modded vapo PE, Modded/regassed/Chilly1 head Mach1 ~ -58 evap no load, and now a Waterchiller - ~ -20 @ 0w, 0 deg @ 325w) and all are built to great quality. My focus is more on performance rather than looks, which Gray caters for nicely. All the units are damn cold and the service is awsome :)
 
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