Water softener installation

dirtychinchilla · 27 Jul 2021 at 10:12

Just posted in the images of things I've bought thread about our water softener so thought I'd follow it up here.

I was just wondering if anyone knew of a company that did reasonably priced installations of water softeners, or a plumber in the Woking (Surrey) who would install one for a reasonable price? I've been quoted £340 by a former Harvey employee, but it seems rather steep for what is probably a couple of hours work. I could be completely underestimating the cost though.

I'm not confident doing any plumbing and don't fully understand what's required, so I'm not interested in doing it myself. Nor is the wife.

fezster · 27 Jul 2021 at 11:21

It simply tees into your incoming CW main and plugs into a socket. The kitchen tap is usually teed off before the softener - so depending on location, this is usually the most difficult part.

dirtychinchilla · 27 Jul 2021 at 13:35

fezster said:
It simply tees into your incoming CW main and plugs into a socket. The kitchen tap is usually teed off before the softener - so depending on location, this is usually the most difficult part.

That sounds like it surpasses my skill level unfortunately

EH75 · 27 Jul 2021 at 22:43

I had a tap works ad11 installed by a local plumber a couple of years back. I bought the unit off amazon for somewhere in the region of £400 and the installation was £200 or £250 I can't remember exactly. Plumber is very reputable and a really nice guy, we have had him do a lot of work for us so I have no reason to believe we were overcharged. This is in North Norfolk. So your quoted price is maybe a bit high but I guess it depends on area and how much pipework needs doing. I'd get a couple of other quotes from local plumbers and see if they quote similar. I'd definitely go down the route of sourcing your own unit and then paying for it to be installed though. Much cheaper than the thousands the big companies (Harvey's etc) charge for something which does essentially the same thing.

McDaniel · 28 Jul 2021 at 14:33

I spent 2 months trying to find someone (Essex area) - most plumbers didn't turn up, or didn't do the installs (seemed like a lot of faff and most were not keen on it for whatever reason). In the end I got a family friend to do it (£200 inc parts) and paid £500 odd for the softener. The only other option was Harveys or similar companies that wanted £1800-2000+ to do it!

R4z0r · 28 Jul 2021 at 15:44

From my limited reading on this, the Harvey’s units seem far superior to the ~£500 ones you can pick up. Kinetico is other brand that pops up alongside Harvey’s and they are also the best part of £2K.

Is it really that Harvey’s are overcharging or is the kit they for superior? Genuinely interested as I was tempted by a cheap (relatively) unit and having it fitted by a local plumber. I’ve been put off by reading that you really do need to pay a lot more for softeners themselves.

Beta · 28 Jul 2021 at 16:28

R4z0r said:
From my limited reading on this, the Harvey’s units seem far superior to the ~£500 ones you can pick up. Kinetico is other brand that pops up alongside Harvey’s and they are also the best part of £2K.

Is it really that Harvey’s are overcharging or is the kit they for superior? Genuinely interested as I was tempted by a cheap (relatively) unit and having it fitted by a local plumber. I’ve been put off by reading that you really do need to pay a lot more for softeners themselves.

I've had 2 different water softeners in the past 10 years. The first was a tapworks AD10 which did a great job, but restricted flow rates, and had periods when the resin was refreshing where if water was used, would pass hard water into the system. Not a big deal as it was done at night.

The second I had different needs as I was moving to a pressurised system so wanted to maintain full flow rates so went with a dual tank Delta system that also had the advantage of not requiring power and could be a split system. As this sits out in a small boiler room, I was able to maximise space by wall mounting the tanks, leaving only the salt bin at floor level. They are different to most dual tanks as they use both at the same time to maintain flow rates, Vs using only one and switching whilst the other is refreshed. https://deltawaterengineering.com/en/product/products/hydrosoft-200b/

Not common systems in the UK it seems, but couldn't be happier and would recommend if you want high flow rates. Just had a local plumber fit.

R4z0r · 28 Jul 2021 at 16:50

Beta said:
I've had 2 different water softeners in the past 10 years. The first was a tapworks AD10 which did a great job, but restricted flow rates, and had periods when the resin was refreshing where if water was used, would pass hard water into the system. Not a big deal as it was done at night.

The second I had different needs as I was moving to a pressurised system so wanted to maintain full flow rates so went with a dual tank Delta system that also had the advantage of not requiring power and could be a split system. As this sits out in a small boiler room, I was able to maximise space by wall mounting the tanks, leaving only the salt bin at floor level. They are different to most dual tanks as they use both at the same time to maintain flow rates, Vs using only one and switching whilst the other is refreshed. https://deltawaterengineering.com/en/product/products/hydrosoft-200b/

Not common systems in the UK it seems, but couldn't be happier and would recommend if you want high flow rates. Just had a local plumber fit.

interesting, how much did the unit cost and are they available in the UK?

Beta · 28 Jul 2021 at 17:00

R4z0r said:
interesting, how much did the unit cost and are they available in the UK?

Not sure if there full range is available, and I went a bit of a roundabout way as I initially bought a Delta Morava then changed my plans. That unit was around £900, I then separately bought a remote tank and wall mount directly from their UK agent and just took the tanks out of the Morava so cost maybe £250 more doing it that way

R4z0r · 28 Jul 2021 at 17:03

Beta said:
Not sure if there full range is available, and I went a bit of a roundabout way as I initially bought a Delta Morava then changed my plans. That unit was around £900, I then separately bought a remote tank and wall mount directly from their UK agent and just took the tanks out of the Morava so cost maybe £250 more doing it that way

Thanks, much appreciated.

EH75 · 28 Jul 2021 at 18:30

R4z0r said:
From my limited reading on this, the Harvey’s units seem far superior to the ~£500 ones you can pick up. Kinetico is other brand that pops up alongside Harvey’s and they are also the best part of £2K.

Is it really that Harvey’s are overcharging or is the kit they for superior? Genuinely interested as I was tempted by a cheap (relatively) unit and having it fitted by a local plumber. I’ve been put off by reading that you really do need to pay a lot more for softeners themselves.

From the reading I did on this before I purchased one (there's a massive thread on the money saving expert forums which is a good read), the Harvey's etc stuff is massively overpriced and it's a racket with huge mark ups similar to double glazing etc.

My experience since having a cheaper unit installed would back this up. I used to have very hard water. Now I don't. I don't see what else I would've got for my extra £1.5k for one of the big names. Flow rate etc has been unaffected (as far as I can notice). Twin systems etc seem a bit of a waste of time as my system recharges at 2am so unless I want to have a shower in the middle of the night it's not going to be a problem.

R4z0r · 28 Jul 2021 at 21:24

EH75 said:
From the reading I did on this before I purchased one (there's a massive thread on the money saving expert forums which is a good read), the Harvey's etc stuff is massively overpriced and it's a racket with huge mark ups similar to double glazing etc.

My experience since having a cheaper unit installed would back this up. I used to have very hard water. Now I don't. I don't see what else I would've got for my extra £1.5k for one of the big names. Flow rate etc has been unaffected (as far as I can notice). Twin systems etc seem a bit of a waste of time as my system recharges at 2am so unless I want to have a shower in the middle of the night it's not going to be a problem.

thanks, appreciate the reply. What unit did you go for?

EH75 · 29 Jul 2021 at 08:29

R4z0r said:
thanks, appreciate the reply. What unit did you go for?

Tapworks AD11. Been installed for around 2 years and had no problems whatsoever. Takes a 25kg bag of salt tablets about once every 10 weeks or so (family of 3). These are about £8-9 a bag from a local supplier.

It came with a little test kit to test the water hardness which confirms that it is very hard round here when using the drinking tap we still have off the mains. The softened supply now reads zero on the hardness scale and we no longer get the limescale all over the place that we used to get.

mid_gen · 29 Jul 2021 at 09:00

Think I may have to have a go at installing one myself. The Harvey's prices seem ridiculous.

The Tapworks NSC11Pro (new version of the AD11) seems reasonable. I need to have a good poke around the pipework though as this house has some bizarre work done in places....

gailjon · 29 Jul 2021 at 12:24

Our Kinetico Premier Compact water softener cost us £1300 fully fitted including a second tap for the kitchen sink so there could be a source of non-softened water if anyone wanted that. The work was completed in 2017.

I thought the price was reasonable considering the amount of plumbing that was involved. The system is self-powered through the water flow so doesn't need electrical connections. We have six bathrooms in the house and we never have a problem with water flow or lack of softened water (it is a twin chamber unit so is always able to soften the water).

The company we used were https://water-systems.co.uk/

We had a system previously that used the rock pellets and found them a real PITA as the bag was big and heavy and difficult to pour into the unit. The block salt system is much easier for storage of extra salt.

R4z0r · 29 Jul 2021 at 20:19

Hmm, seems Kinetico and Harvey’s are a lot more expensive than the metered ones. A decent metered one seems to be £500.

I emailed Delta so see if their units can be supplied in the UK and to get a price.

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 29 Jul 2021 at 23:32

The biggest issue for most water softeners is they use flexible hoses to make installation easier and most internal diameters of flexibles are around 50-60% of the nominal pipe measurement.
You want to make sure you get high flow versions, which will be more like 80% of the nominal.

Look at the end connectors, if there is minimal difference between the nut and the braided then they are likely high flow. They can be significantly more expensive.
My 22mm (nominal outside diameter) ones were 18mm inside. The standard ones are 12/13mm

Beta · 29 Jul 2021 at 23:41

R4z0r said:
I emailed Delta so see if their units can be supplied in the UK and to get a price.

Delta are absolutely available in the UK, however it looks like they may also be being sold under the Pallas brand, both are owned by Pollet Water Group. I got my Delta from fountain softeners https://www.fountainsofteners.co.uk/delta-morava-water-softener-c2x17645519 but it looks like they also sell the single and double tank Pallas Nene. The installation instructions and images other than the external box are identical to the delta.

fezster · 30 Jul 2021 at 09:59

Tapworks AD11 here. With high flow kit is able to deliver around 40-50L/min. The only advantage, I found, of the ridiculously priced softeners is that they have so-called dual chambers so you have no interruption of softened water. You decide how important that is to you - mine recharges at night every week or so, so unless I'm using a tap or shower at that time, it's of little consequence (and even if I did, having a little unsoftened water is hardly the end of the world).

R4z0r · 30 Jul 2021 at 15:14

fezster said:
Tapworks AD11 here. With high flow kit is able to deliver around 40-50L/min. The only advantage, I found, of the ridiculously priced softeners is that they have so-called dual chambers so you have no interruption of softened water. You decide how important that is to you - mine recharges at night every week or so, so unless I'm using a tap or shower at that time, it's of little consequence (and even if I did, having a little unsoftened water is hardly the end of the world).

That’s especially interesting as @Beta mentioned the previous model, AD10, was restricting flow. This is my main concern with a Tapworks unit (I don’t care about dual chambers), are the newer ones better? I live in a modern house with a high pressure system so don’t want to screw that up with a cheaper softener.