Water temperature?

oldbanana

oldbanana

oldbanana

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I have a strange problem wich is that my temps suck, I have a simple loop, 1 CPU, 1x GPU 1x 560 RAD, D5 pump, ~24c ambient.
Radiator is the alphacool monsta 560 and fans (phanteks F140MP) are pwm controlled so around ~1000rpm when under max load.

8700K ( delidded and overclocked 1.36v LLC5 5ghz (-2avx) so running custom x264 it seems to run on 4.8ghz but I am not sure if it`s a bug or x264 supports avx instructions, anyway that`s irrelevant.
GTX 1080 no overvoltage but just +500 memory and +125 core wich makes it around 2075/5500.

But when I run X264 and lets say witcher 3 @ the same time ( 1440p uncapped, so basically max cpu and max GPU load), CPU hits up to 80c and GPU is around 52c after an hour, while my watertemp maxes around 38c, so would you say it`s normal having a delta ( component temp - water temp) of 14c on the GPU and ~42c for the CPU ?

Only option I seem to have to get these temps better is buying an additional radiator something like MO-RA3 420 or something, but considering it would be like an additional 300€ investment over everything I have spent already, it seems kind of pointless to get a few degrees of improvement? When I could just go air while maintaining the same noise level while costing 1/8th of the watercooling loop ?

I mean these temps seem so bad that I am considering ditching watercooling alltogether. Since I have a Schyte Mugen 5 PCHG for my CPU, and Rajintek Morpheus II for my GPU, which cost like 100€ ( for both) to cool the CPU and the GPU not much worse than what they are running now.
And the Scythe managed 5ghz 8700K with no problems, while being really silent.

So what I am asking what are your delta temps ( component - water ) since I am kind of dissapointed by the performance of my loop.
Picture is just for overview I have changed the tubing run so the water wont enter from VRM to the GPU but from the core side. Other than that it`s pretty much the same, loop has a total of 16 compression fittings, 3 pairs of Barrow QDC and 6x 90degree angled adapters, pump is runnig somewhere around 1.5/5 on the vario knob, and I am not willing to go any higher since temp difference is minimal, and it gets noisy after that point, same for the fans, 1000rpm is borderline unbearable anyway.
9Pzxsya.jpg
 
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Do you have clear air flow behind your radiator? Can't quite tell by your photo.

Your temperatures do seem higher than expected for 24C ambient but I'm running 840 combined (480 + 360). Even then, I wouldn't expect that much of a difference. I've not seem my water above 33.5C this year (usually sub 32C) after hours of Destiny 2 with my 1080Ti overclocked and running over 100% TDP, even with the radiator on (right next to case) and the room ambient hitting 26-27C at times. I run a monoblock so pulling heat from 8700K and VRMs. My CPU is only running 4.8Ghz though without any offsets at 1.26V LLC Turbo. It's not delidded and reaches maybe low 70s max under hours of Prime64. With GPUz set to report maximum values I've not seen my GPU temperature above 36C, maybe 37C.

I have a Corsair 900D case with a 480 in the bottom and 360 at the top, both with push intake configuration. My fans are on curves controlled by an Aquaero relative to the water temperature. They're not linear but start at 30% PWM @20C and hit 100% PWM @41C. The maximum is set high since I don't really want them hitting 1500rpm unless my system is boiling. At the usual upper end of gaming (32C water) the fans would be at 75% which is about 1125 RPM.

Do you see a drop in your water temperature when you spin the fans higher or is 1000rpm the maximum already?
 
Well sure I see an improvement if I crank up the fans, but that defeats the purpose of watercooling, in all honesty I would like to stay at 500rpm on the fans for silence but that wont really help the temps. Behind the rad I have as much as possible open. 8700K and 1080 is a midrange setup, and still a 560 rad struggles, really makes me consider going back to air, since there is no real benefit to running water atleast for me, that`s what it looks like, if temps are so abysmal.
 
I'd say your GPU and water temps are fine, but your CPU block hasn't been seated properly. If there was an actual problem with your loop and cooling capacity you'd see your GPU and water temps a lot higher than that.

You're gonna have to drain that loop and tear it down to check the CPU block. Is it seated correctly? Is it oriented correctly? Is it gunked up in any way?
 
LePhuronn said:
I'd say your GPU and water temps are fine, but your CPU block hasn't been seated properly. If there was an actual problem with your loop and cooling capacity you'd see your GPU and water temps a lot higher than that.

You're gonna have to drain that loop and tear it down to check the CPU block. Is it seated correctly? Is it oriented correctly? Is it gunked up in any way?
Click to expand...

Well I can take off the cpu block and reseat it in minutes (3 pairs of QDC come handy) and I have done it already but its still the same, have opened the block and it clean, its alligned normally not goofy orientation. Maybe I should go get some new liquid metal and redo that on the cpu.
 
I doub it, although when watching this chart from xtremerigs supremacy evo review my delta of 42c makes sense, since my water is 38c and cpu hits upto 80c
A2BEzFo.png
 
Your deltas seem okish,i would expect the gpu to be more like 8-10c,might be worth refitting the block or using different paste.


Your water temp does seem kinda high considering you have a 560mm rad and only a cpu/gpu loop.Fans could be an issue,1.62 mm H2O
static pressure when running at max rpm aint that much really,especially for a thick rad like the monsta
 
But there arent any fans out there that would drastically lower the temps while still being as close to inaudible as possible, so I am pretty much out of ideas.
Out of curiousity i disconnected the watercooling loop and mounted rajintek morpheus 2 on the gpu, temps were like 52 or so, so watercooling doesnt give me like anything over air as strange as it sounds, air is quieter if anything.
And before disconnecting I discovered there was quite a lot of air in the tubes wich i did not see while bleeding, could that be the issue aswell? There was like a solid 40cm part of a tube that had nothing but air in it.
 
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oldbanana said:
There was like a solid 40cm part of a tube that had nothing but air in it.
Click to expand...

This could deffo be an issue tbf

Regarding your fans,i run the HW which puts out a lot higher wattage than your HW in my sig on a 360mm and 240mm rad with noctua F12's at around 1000rpm and at similar ambient temperature as you.I get about 30-34c water temps(60ish c on the cpu and 37-40c on the gpu) under high load and very low noise,these fans have a peak of about 2.60mm H20 at max rpm(1500rpm) for reference.I would consider looking into some EK varders or something similar IMO.
 
From all the tests I have seen the choice of fans for water temps is highly irrelevant, if you buy the best static pressure fans or some random ones, temps really dont change to a relevant degree.
 
Static pressure fans for normal radiators dont normally make much difference.

Monsta rads which are much thicker and have far more area to "Push through" need decent static pressure fans to operate well, otherwise your better off with a lower FPI Rad with normal fans.
You cant use 1000 RPM fans on a rad that thick it just wont penetrate enough whichout being a monsta SP fan itself.

I think your issues is your Rad plus this 40 CM of air trapped in the system isnt going to help in the slightest if that had been trapped in the rad etc.
 
When making the decision to go with the monsta over something like the nemesis GTS 560 (one of the best thin rads) I based the decision on xtremerigs rad roundup where the monsta outperformed the GTS on all fanspeeds, is there a flaw in my logic?
Plus it had 5 ports more than the GTS.

ACMonsta280-P-750.png

Vs
ACMonsta280-P-1850.png


So even at low fanspeeds the monsta should win, yes they reviewed the 280 versions but just multiply it by 2 for 560, or am I missing something?
 
Hi OldBanana,


All I can tell you is what I have seen sir.

On a monsta rad using a Corsair AF Fan at mid RPM ranges you got a like wind tunnel effect, I kind of worked out that the air was just stalling entering the rad and being being pushed back out and into the blades creating a loud vortex noise.
A change off to Corsair SP fans seemed to resolve the issue and actually made the whole thing quieter.

At least maybe worth a go?

And get rid of that air trap :)
 
oldbanana said:
And before disconnecting I discovered there was quite a lot of air in the tubes wich i did not see while bleeding, could that be the issue aswell? There was like a solid 40cm part of a tube that had nothing but air in it.
Click to expand...

Thats a lot of trapped air. Far more than just a few bubbles, and probably resulted in an airlock.

Reassemble, bleed it properly and go from there. There shouldn't be any trapped air.

*edit - Looking at your pictures, how do you bleed it? That res isnt going to trap any air or make it easy to bleed as its top fed... Take the top port hose from rad and move it to one of the bottom ports. Then any air that travels through the res should get trapped, float to the top of the res and allow you to bleed/remove the air properly.

I would remount the res a bit higher, top of res inline with top of rad. Adjust so your not using the top port on the res. Fill, Bleed then unmount the rad and bring it down so that any trapped air has an easy path to get out to the res.

Lots of tipped, gently shaking, tapping to help any trapped air get moved is usually needed.

How did you have 40cm of trapped air? cant see anywhere that would happen and not be noticed.
 
The only real issue with running thick rads, is you need a fair whack of air to penetrate and cool. Which usually results in higher noise output vs a thinner one.

With regards to noise grab yourself some better fans. The phanteks you have there are crap in my opinion for noise. Really heavy blades.

Get some ML120’s in white.

Ensure the loop is fully bled too, pump on max and twist and turn the case in as many places as you can.

Gpu temp seems a little high but reasonable. CPU might just need a reseat. Luckily you should be able to get to it without stripping your loop as you have flexi pipes.
 
Before you spend any money, reassemble/replumb as I described earlier (so return to res is NOT at the top) and get it bled correctly and see what the temperatures are like.

I run a monsta 480 rad, its low FPI makes it quite low resistance so fans actually have an easy life blowing through it. With vardars in push at 800rpm it cools a 6700t and a pair of 1080's in sli.

Have a read of this review, the monsta rad performs very very well with low rpm fans:
http://www.xtremerigs.net/2016/02/09/alphacool-monsta-280-radiator-review/all/1/

By all means try other fans if you want, but I believe your whole issue is the trapped air/struggle to bleed due to a non-optimal configuration of your loop.
 
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Well the return from rad can only be at the top because there is only one port at the bottom which is outlet. But i have an extension for it so thetinlet is submerged.
 
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oldbanana said:
Well the return from rad can only be at the top because there is only one port at the bottom which is outlet.
Click to expand...

Oh. Thats odd!! So its not really a res, just an extra wide bit of hose!

Any air that is in the loop will travel around and settle at the highest point that it can, 'normally' a res has its ins and outs at the bottom, with a deflector so the out doesnt suck directly from the in (ie force the water to go up before it goes back down and out), this lets any bubbles/air seperate out and settle at the top of the res. You wiggle and jiggle the bits and the air moves around until it gets trapped in the res and can either be replaced (topped up) or left and ignored.
Having the in at the top is going to make it very hard to successfully bleed!

What res is it? Looks like integrated pump at the bottom, D5? I have a pile of spare res's on my project parts shelf (5 atm from memory!!), so would happily bung one your way (free, gratis, just cover postage and stick £5 in a charity of your choice) if you have a way to make your pump work off the res (pump top). I bet this would solve all your issues. You have a HUGE amount of cooling for not a lot of component heat, so shouldnt be having these issues.
 
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