WC Rads .. any comparison sites ?

Vogon

Vogon

Vogon

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Does anyone know of sites that compare rads with an easy to understand measuring system ... something along the lines of how many watts of heat each rad can dissapate with equal low noise or no fans ?

Everyone seems to be of the opinion that Thermochill are the best, but how much better ? (what sort of temp difference on the same set-up with say Swiftech or Black Ice rads of the same size) and what are the runners up in performance order ?
 
As far as I'm aware, only a chap called Radicaal has tested a few radiators (might have only been Swiftech and Thermochill).

The problem is not a lot of companies would pay to have theirs tested. The MCR radiators are designed by a chap called BillA and they're made and licensed only to be branded as CoolTek and Switech radiators (don't quote me 100% on that).

Then there is Thermochill, who make the PA series for themselves and are not re branded under any other name.

All other radiators are pretty much made in China and sold under loads of different brand names. These companies obviously don't care about performance, only to sell a lot of radiators in bulk so wouldn't pay to have them tested.

Testing a radiator properly means some expensive testing equipment is used, and people are always questioned as biased if they're paid to test them.
 
Cotti said:
Thermochill
There is no comparison.
Click to expand...

But therein is the problem,
pretty much everyone says it ... were are the facts to prove it :)

For example, everyone says the Fuzion CPU block is better by far from say the EK 775 block.
At least those have test comparisons, and from what I have seen theres is maybe 3 deg difference.
In my book, thats not an awful lot more performance for the 60% extra cost, others may feel it is.

Back to Rads, the Thermochill is not only almost twice the price of say a Swiftech, its also substantially thicker which makes it tougher to fit in with my plans. Now if I knew how much difference it made, I could decide if it was worth the extra outlay and compromise on fitting ;)

Mekrel, Thanks, I will try and search out the swiftech vs thermochill test :)
 
Hi google this; thermochill xtreme test

I have a HE 120.3 and a PA 120.3 to be honest I was hoping the PA would be a big improvement over the HE but it wasn't anything huge, more like 1c 2c at very most, the HE is cheaper thinner and very nearly as good, shame I only have the one PC as it's sitting in it's box whilst the PA is taking more room up in my PC than the HE did.
Buy a HE and you will be a happy bunny.

PS I also had a Storm and bought the D Tek Fuzion and same story but worse I couldn't even measure the difference, another box with a Storm sitting in it, no wonder the wallets empty.
 
You have to remember that everything is relative - dropping the extra deniro on a Thermochill will get you extra performance, but it depends on whether or not a couple of degrees is worth it to you.

A chap you may have heard of by the name of Cathar does some very eloquent testing of watercooling hardware, and Thermochill radiators were found to be the ones that feature the lowest pressure drop and provided for lower temperatres.

It's a case of knowing what to stick into Google.
 
mrthingyx said:
You have to remember that everything is relative - dropping the extra deniro on a Thermochill will get you extra performance, but it depends on whether or not a couple of degrees is worth it to you.

A chap you may have heard of by the name of Cathar does some very eloquent testing of watercooling hardware, and Thermochill radiators were found to be the ones that feature the lowest pressure drop and provided for lower temperatres.

It's a case of knowing what to stick into Google.
Click to expand...

Totally agree, a 2c drop if your a keen overclocker is like Christmas coming early and cheap too, its all relative.
 
I found the review :)
To me lower the temps the better, but not to the extent that 2 deg costs (in the case of the rad) twice the amount.
However, those tests pit the 240mm Thermochill against the 320mm Cooltek/Swiftek and it appears to maintain temps as cool as the bigger Swiftech.

Which means the 320 Thermochill should maybe be really nice with some very quiet fans ? ... silence is golden ;)
I was thinking maybe 3x 120mm Scythe S-FLEX SFF21D Fan 800 RPM (8db 33cfm) ?

@ sammie337, what hardware is in your loop ?
@ Mekrel, same Q and which Thermochill do you have ?
 
One advantage of the PA series is that the fins are spread further apart, so it doesn't need as powerful a fan to provide decent cooling.. That means you can run your fans a lot slower and quieter and still get the same performance as some other rads! :)
 
I have a PA120.3 and a PA120.2.

What you need to remember, is that tests can't be compared if they're not used on the exact same test bed.

To the person who said the HE is within two degrees difference, well that's wrong. The PA radiators were designed with silence in mind, Cathar who designed the PA radiators did so around a similar fan specification as a Yate Loon DS12SL. The HE is discontinued because there would be no point in manufacturing it any longer, no one would buy it over a PA.

If you were to use the same Yate Loon fan on a PA and a HE and test them, there would be a much bigger difference than 2 degrees. The HE requires 100CFM + fans to shine, where as a 100CFM would not show as much benefit as a PA radiator than a fan that pushes less.

Radiical's testing shows a PA120.2 with a shroud, to match that of a MCR320 (Swiftechs 3 fan radiator).
 
I was hoping you only had the one rad with the GTX+Quad+chipset to get an idea of temps, also what fans and voltage ?
Is yours seperate loops or both rads in one ?
 
My water cooling setup isn't in use yet. I'm building a PC343B but waiting on a few parts to come back from a certain shop.

There will be two loops, with Yate Loon D12SL's on a fan controller (sunbeam rheostat to be exact).

CPU on one, and GTX on the other.
 
Vogon said:
I found the review :)
To me lower the temps the better, but not to the extent that 2 deg costs (in the case of the rad) twice the amount.
However, those tests pit the 240mm Thermochill against the 320mm Cooltek/Swiftek and it appears to maintain temps as cool as the bigger Swiftech.

Which means the 320 Thermochill should maybe be really nice with some very quiet fans ? ... silence is golden ;)
I was thinking maybe 3x 120mm Scythe S-FLEX SFF21D Fan 800 RPM (8db 33cfm) ?

@ sammie337, what hardware is in your loop ?
@ Mekrel, same Q and which Thermochill do you have ?
Click to expand...

Hi

I have a Q6600 with the Asus Maximus and a ATI X1900XTX all in the loop using a Laing DDC pump, I also use a Big NG fan controller which keeps the fans going real slow, I'm using the AC Ryan Blackfire fans which are noisy but look great but the Big NG keeps them VERY quiet and the Radiator keeps everything VERY cool Typical temps are CPU 30-35c idle and 60 ish after 12 hours Prime, but bear in mind you can't hear the fans if I used a regular fan controller the temps would be WAY lower but much noisier.

Where do you live as I could loan you the 120.3 HE (with a deposit) so you had first hand knowledge.
 
Thanks for the offer sammie377, very kind of you but at the moment I have only the pump so it wouldn't help :)
As I intend to run the 8800 Ultra, C2D and chipset through one rad, and I want quiet fans, I think I will have to compromise on cost and size and plump for the PA.
Knowing the heat the ultra generates, I think it will be the wisest choice.

It may be, from what I understand (which isn't a lot ATM :p) that your rad was perfectly ample to cool your heat, in which case a better rad wouldn't improve it.
Its only if the current rad was overworked that it would help ... at least thats how I interpret it ...

@ Mekrel ... I see a lot of WC setups use the yate loons ... but why ?
From what I can see they arent too quiet, and when 7v they cant have as good an airflow ?
From reviews and specs the Noctuas have about the best airflow and noise charteristics ... but then you can get 3 YL for the cost of one Noctua :eek:
 
Well, two guys over on Xtremesystems (Vapour and Cathar) have tested a fair few of 120mm fans (probably about 30, maybe more between them) and both seemed to agree that the Yate Loon fan specifications matched what they were measuring and most others did not.

I'm a "money is no object" kind of person when it comes to hardware, well to a certain extent (for instance, you won't see me buying over what I need hence why I have a GTX and buying an ultra would see questionable gains for my setup) and I've spent loads on fans trying to find something that can obtain the same temperatures I get with Yates but quieter or better the temperatures at the same noise level.

I've even bought a load of Papst fans from America for quite a bit of money (for fans at least) and I keep going back to the Yate Loon and a fan controller. For £4.00 a fan, they're brilliant.

Noctuas are good case fans where they're not being use in conjunction with a filter. Their CFM/Noise ratio is brilliant, but the fan blade design which gives them this advantage means they have poor static pressure. Static pressure is a big factor in radiator fan performance, as the higher it is, the better the fan is at pulling air through a dense object (such as Radiators, fan filters, dense fin heatsinks). Remember, the PA radiator series was designed pretty much around the fan specification of a Yate Loon.
 
hey guys, don't forget blackice do a load of rads too, GTS 'stealth' is very thin if that's what you're after and quite cheap imo, GTX is thick like a PA and a bit more expensive
 
Vogon said:
Thanks for the offer sammie377, very kind of you but at the moment I have only the pump so it wouldn't help :)
As I intend to run the 8800 Ultra, C2D and chipset through one rad, and I want quiet fans, I think I will have to compromise on cost and size and plump for the PA.
Knowing the heat the ultra generates, I think it will be the wisest choice.

It may be, from what I understand (which isn't a lot ATM :p) that your rad was perfectly ample to cool your heat, in which case a better rad wouldn't improve it.
Its only if the current rad was overworked that it would help ... at least thats how I interpret it ...

@ Mekrel ... I see a lot of WC setups use the yate loons ... but why ?
From what I can see they arent too quiet, and when 7v they cant have as good an airflow ?
From reviews and specs the Noctuas have about the best airflow and noise charteristics ... but then you can get 3 YL for the cost of one Noctua :eek:
Click to expand...

I think your right, my X1900XT doesn't pump a lot into the loop compared to todays cards so as you said the rad might have been more than enough, but I ran the same AC Ryan fans at low speed so I'm surprised it worked so well, I did contact the guy who makes the Thermochill rads and he said the tubing and pump were greater factors and the PA over the HE was not going to give me as much as improving my tubing routes and a stronger pump would, I followed his advice which was great who else would almost lose the sale of a new radiator? The tubing was the biggest improvement as I had the radiator outside the case with the radiator being under the desk, I almost halved the tube length and the pump had a easier life which made a large improvement.

I'm currently running my Q6600 @3.88GHz prime stable with 1.56v and average temps of 61.5c. I wish it was easy to remove the radiator to try the HE because I feel sure the difference wouldn't be huge, not sure what the difference in price is but the PA is very expensive that's for sure.
 
Bear in mind what chip you will be using and at what speed and heat output. The current quads will need a PA120.2 or 120.3 of other brands with quiet fans (when overclocking). Where Yorkfields will only need a PA120.1 with a quiet fan or 120.2 of other brands with the same fan(s).

That's a bit of a generalisation but you get the picture. The smaller the rad you can get away with the easier it is to position in your case.

As for testing, personally I don't believe any 1 person or review, but that of several reviews or real life testing and experiences. There is no definitive right or wrong in watercooling, just a general concensous. For all the great testing that Thermochill, Swiftech, etc...carry out. It is thier business and it is the perogitive of the consumer to believe or indeed read the data provided or not. Then there is the enthusiast who may make his own waterblocks or pump tops, again, do we believe the data is accurate or more importantly is it inline with testing that others carry out? For that reason the small differences in performance should be taken with a pinch of salt. Look at the product that makes the biggest difference in price, quality and functionality.

If you want the absolute best of everything and to understand why it's the best, then you have a lot of reading to do. It can be very interesting...if you have the time.
 
Yeah, I have already had a few late nights researching, a few more to come probably :)

As for the radiator, it will be a Thermochill PA120.3 as it looks to have no competition with low noise/RPM fans.
As the Yate Loon fans are so inexpensive and rated by the WC community, I will try them first.
I can always change them easily enough if I am not happy with them :)
 
weescott said:
Bear in mind what chip you will be using and at what speed and heat output. The current quads will need a PA120.2 or 120.3 of other brands with quiet fans (when overclocking). Where Yorkfields will only need a PA120.1 with a quiet fan or 120.2 of other brands with the same fan(s).

That's a bit of a generalisation but you get the picture. The smaller the rad you can get away with the easier it is to position in your case.

As for testing, personally I don't believe any 1 person or review, but that of several reviews or real life testing and experiences. There is no definitive right or wrong in watercooling, just a general concensous. For all the great testing that Thermochill, Swiftech, etc...carry out. It is thier business and it is the perogitive of the consumer to believe or indeed read the data provided or not. Then there is the enthusiast who may make his own waterblocks or pump tops, again, do we believe the data is accurate or more importantly is it inline with testing that others carry out? For that reason the small differences in performance should be taken with a pinch of salt. Look at the product that makes the biggest difference in price, quality and functionality.

If you want the absolute best of everything and to understand why it's the best, then you have a lot of reading to do. It can be very interesting...if you have the time.
Click to expand...

Very wise, your words couldn't be more helpful, although I only have my own system I did what you have advised which as you also advised takes a long time but also adds to the enjoyment, the only thing I might add would be to look at people's kit who have done well with benching, there's a lot to be learned from that.

And also with regards to noise and fans here's a great site;
http://www.silentpcreview.com/
 
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