Weak shoulders

NotAGolf

NotAGolf

NotAGolf

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A while back (2 years ish) I got tendonitis in my shoulder so I had to stop training at them gym, ever since then I've only ever done shoulder exercises with dubmbells (shoulder presses, front raises and lateral raises). I tried doing military presses on the smith machine the other day and i'm unbelievably weak, it hurts slightly accross my left collarbone, its the same with shoulder press machines, and a little bit with a barbell inclined bench press.

To give you some idea of my weakness, I can shoulder press about 50kgs with dumbells but only around 30kgs on a smith machine/barbell. It seems to be any machine where I'm restricted movement wise.

Is there any way I can strengthen these set of muscles across the collarbone area or is likely to be some other problem that I should get help with?

Thanks
 
M8 the military press is tough don't underestimate it, even on the smith machine, I did it today and it's damn tough, 30KG's on the smith is good m8.
 
But surely it shouldn't be hurting so much on the collarbone area, more on the actual shoulder? I know they're all linked together but it's pretty intense.
 
50kg DB? Is that 25kg in each hand? Even so that's not bad at all if you've got good form. I don't put the backrest up, so as to have nothing to push against, try that with light weights it'll help you build up your balancing/compensating muscles.

And yes, keep away from the smith machine!
 
Yea that's 25kg in each hand. Ok thanks for the advice will be staying away from the smith machine!

I must admit that I do bend my back a bit when I'm working shoulders. I have the back-rest up and tend to arch my back a bit, but it's worse when I'm standing or sitting with a backrest. I just find it very hard to keep a good posture, if I get my back dead straight then my shoulder movement becomes much more restricted. Is this normal or have I just got a god awful posture in general so have got used to it?
 
I've very recently been converted to the Smith Machine for shoulder press. Can be a useful tool for adding some mass to the shoulders if done correctly.

I don't use it for anything else though.
 
mpledge52 said:
Yea that's 25kg in each hand. Ok thanks for the advice will be staying away from the smith machine!

I must admit that I do bend my back a bit when I'm working shoulders. I have the back-rest up and tend to arch my back a bit, but it's worse when I'm standing or sitting with a backrest. I just find it very hard to keep a good posture, if I get my back dead straight then my shoulder movement becomes much more restricted. Is this normal or have I just got a god awful posture in general so have got used to it?
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I think it means that you are lifting weight to heavy for you at the moment.
Drop the weight and have a more stable back, slight arch but shoulders and back up, not bending backwards utilising other muscles.
 
And do it without the back rest, and use light weights as I said, concentrate on form and don't worry about heavy weight. The reason it feels painful or odd or restrictive in movement is probably because of lack of strength and lack of form. Shoulders don't need a huge weight to develop to a decent level initially. Sounds like you are in that position.

Once you get good form, try sitting on one of those big exercise balls for added stabiliser muscle work. It's hardwork but very very good.
 
If your gym doesnt have a low back bench then sit backwards on a preacher station, adjust the height of the rest to be where it needs. I have found that works very well. :]
 
If you are just starting out on shoudler workouts you don;t need to pound heavy weights initially. What is more inportant is making sure you use correct form for each and every excercise/rep you perform. The worst thing you can do is start pounding heavy iron through the shoudlers and then fubar your rotator cuffs. When these babies get injured they take forever and a day to get back to 100%.

You can also do some excercies with light weights that specifically target the rotator cuff in order to strengthen it up. 9 times out of 10 weak shoulders / inability to press decent weights through the shoulders are down to weak rotators.

Key point is to take it easy till you build up strength and always use proper form for all excercies to reduce the chances of picking up any injuries.
 
Don't know about the stats as they're pretty meaningless but I agree about the massively neglected rotator cuffs. I do them at the end of my workouts and I've never seen anyone else doing them, ever!

I get some funny looks from people, especially when I use the DB's and lie on the bench. Struggling with 7.5kg doing externals lol :D My shoulders are immeasurably better and just feel great. Before I was strong but too scared to ever exert full force, especially outside the gym in everyday life without a good warmup. Now I just feel as strong as a bull... and just as solid.
 
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Chong, I remember the workout routine you posted a while back where you had 4x15 rotator cuff exercises at the end of each workout. Exactly what exercises did you do there? I read that bodybuilding.com article you posted and it suggested 3x10 for 4 different exercises!
 
I suffered with a winged scapula for some time and found adding seated rows and doing press ups with one hand on a mediball has really helped pull everything back into shape.
 
Freefaller said:
50kg DB? Is that 25kg in each hand? Even so that's not bad at all if you've got good form. I don't put the backrest up, so as to have nothing to push against, try that with light weights it'll help you build up your balancing/compensating muscles.

And yes, keep away from the smith machine!
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Take the back rest away, loose back form and shag your back out faster than you can imagine. The key to better shoulders is compound exercises i.e exercises that involve more than one movement. Shoulder press, especially on a machine is a good exercise but your body can become used to it. Instead, try one week doing pull-ups (the most ******* exercise in the world but bloody excellent). Even bench press and suprisingly heavy deadlifts are good too. Remember you dont need to 'hit' your shoulders directly to make them grow - they are such a strong supporting muscle that they are exercised by most upper body movements.
 
mpledge52 said:
I must admit that I do bend my back a bit when I'm working shoulders. I have the back-rest up and tend to arch my back a bit, but it's worse when I'm standing or sitting with a backrest. I just find it very hard to keep a good posture, if I get my back dead straight then my shoulder movement becomes much more restricted. Is this normal or have I just got a god awful posture in general so have got used to it?
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I'd say you need to drop down to 15Kg/17.5Kg and build up slowly. If you find yourself flexing then you're not achieving what the exercise is aimed to achieve. A common occurrence is to 'complete the lift' when the objective is to 'work the muscle'. These don't always go hand in hand. Pick up some 10's, get an instructor over and ask him to watch you lift. It's not always easy to see what's going on yourself.

After form correction, you'll realise how weak you really are! :p
 
Isotope said:
Take the back rest away, loose back form and shag your back out faster than you can imagine. The key to better shoulders is compound exercises i.e exercises that involve more than one movement. Shoulder press, especially on a machine is a good exercise but your body can become used to it. Instead, try one week doing pull-ups (the most ******* exercise in the world but bloody excellent). Even bench press and suprisingly heavy deadlifts are good too. Remember you dont need to 'hit' your shoulders directly to make them grow - they are such a strong supporting muscle that they are exercised by most upper body movements.
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You mean lose right? You don't shag your back at all if you have good form - in fact it's even better at strength and core development if you can lock your core. It makes it even more imperative for getting the form right though, that I agree with. Which then means strength and gains are much more achievable as your hitting the shoulders in a much more isolated fashion. You don't have to explain what compound and isolation exercises are mate I'm well aware - but thanks :) For a beginner as I said, using a smith machine is quite a good way to start off - though if you're trying heavy weights as CW suggested it's not bad either, but that's about all the smith machine is good for, I don't feel much benefit from it personally though. I know enough about heavy deadlifts (;)) and other compound exercises that work the shoulders, but I like to "attack" my shoulders from time to time in a very isolated way. Hence doing unsupported DB shoulder presses. I don't do them exclusively, I do them from time to time to perfect my technique and work on the stabilising muscles. You'd only screw your back up if you're one of those idiots that arches his back and pushes with the wrong part of your body. Lock out your core and you'll find a lot of strength is released when it comes to that sort of exercise. Same with squats and deadlifts - strong core = strong lift.
 
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