Wealth distribution and its inequality in the Uk.

Efour · 8 Oct 2013 at 12:27

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...lity-how-wealth-distributed-uk-animated-video

I saw this and watched it... Its nothing new or amazing, I've seen it done with the US dollar. Just seems to hit harder when its in £s.

I'm sure there are arguments either way to say why this is fair, why shouldn't you have so much if you work hard or inherit it?

I'm also equally sure there is some data skewing the results so much. At least i hope so.

I honestly believe that if I had as much as the top tier of people I would be very philanthropic. Surely there is a point where you have so much that more is irrelevant but can greatly enhance others lives? (and that amount isn't multi's of millions either)

Seems i turn much more socialistic the older i get...

Theophany · 8 Oct 2013 at 12:35

'Fair' is a normative concept. The corollary to 'is it fair that the top 1% have 60% of the wealth' would be 'how is it fair to artificially skew wealth to an arbitrary distribution.'

Bear · 8 Oct 2013 at 12:41

Efour said:
Seems i turn much more socialistic the older i get...

I think it is more the case that the older you get, the more you think about other people, not just about yourself which usually comes with responsibility.

starfighter · 8 Oct 2013 at 12:45

Inheritence does kinda annoy me, I know a multi millionaire who is a complete twonk, never worked a day in his life. Thing is even with 40% tax when you die it is too easy to get around.

pitchfork · 8 Oct 2013 at 12:46

There are so many problems with large wealth divides I'm not going to even attempt to list them all.

But some key things to remember are, monopolies are bad for competition and economic development, high levels of wealth accumulate in pockets, if someone is earning increasingly more than they are spending then the economy as a whole takes a hit.

Local economies are vastly more important to long term economic stability, deprived areas aren't always deprived due to a lack of jobs, more due to a bleed in their economy. If almost all the money made by businesses goes directly overseas, that local economy grows increasingly weaker and weaker, which makes it impossible for local entrepreneurs.

Ultimately, neoliberalism has ****ed everyone except the super rich.
Without government intervention (in the right manner, preferably in the form of superefficient democratic economic policy) then the rich will only grow richer as the rest of us lose out, you can work as hard as you like and do everything in your power, but you aren't above the erosion of power among the majority. Even if you have a steady job now, it won't be steady forever.

Theophany · 8 Oct 2013 at 12:47

starfighter said:
Inheritence does kinda annoy me, I know a multi millionaire who is a complete twonk, never worked a day in his life. Thing is even with 40% tax when you die it is too easy to get around.

Why is inheritance any more of your business than whether or not his parents went to swinging parties, though? It's private wealth and what happens to it is the business of the family and HMRC, nobody else.

deanolfc · 8 Oct 2013 at 12:50

The 1%.

Haircut · 8 Oct 2013 at 12:51

That animation doesn't ever actually make it clear just what they mean by wealth.
I'm assuming it's talking about net worth rather than income, in which case it's really not that surprising that the bottom 20% have a very small share of the wealth.

EDIT: Found the data they use: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171776_271539.pdf
Looks like it is net worth:

article said:
This chapter looks at total net wealth of private households in Great Britain. The definition of wealth
used in this survey is an economic one: total wealth (gross) is the value of accumulated assets,
and total wealth (net) is the value of accumulated assets minus the value of accumulated liabilities.
Total net wealth is defined as the sum of four components: property wealth (net) and physical wealth
(each covered in
part one of the wave two report
), financial wealth (net) from Chapter 3, and private
pension wealth from Chapter 4.

In that case, even if everyone earned exactly the same amount you would end up with a skewed wealth distribution purely by virtue of the fact that some people have been around a lot longer and have had more of an opportunity to build that wealth.

estebanrey · 8 Oct 2013 at 12:51

My dad has always said if you took all the money in Britain and divided equally amongst the population then within a decade it would be back to where it was before.

The problem is we ALL have the ability to affect the distribution, we are just too selfish to do anything about it. Take footballers' wages and how people moan they are too high, well the solution is simple. Cancel your Sky Sports subscription, stop paying £60 for a shirt and don't but that three figure season ticket. If everyone did that then these clubs wouldn't have the wealth they do and footballers' wages would drop.

estebanrey · 8 Oct 2013 at 12:52

deanolfc said:
The 1%.

Globally speaking we are all in the top 1%.

mmj_uk · 8 Oct 2013 at 12:52

It's just the natural cycle of Capitalism, I'd like to think there will be a revolution or something someday but people today are just so indifferent/passive.

The saddest part of it all is the way the working/middle classes are conditioned to blame those below them for their diminishing lifestyles, rather than those above them who are taking their share of the wealth.

Skidder · 8 Oct 2013 at 12:54

starfighter said:
Inheritence does kinda annoy me, I know a multi millionaire who is a complete twonk, never worked a day in his life. Thing is even with 40% tax when you die it is too easy to get around.

Inheritance tax is in my view a deplorable tax and should be scrapped entirely. Take what you want from my income, don't hand my kids a bill when I die.

As for that video from the guardian and its chums, it has sickened me to the core, filthy, patronising, leftist rag.

estebanrey · 8 Oct 2013 at 12:55

mmj_uk said:
The saddest part of it all is the way the working/middle classes are conditioned to blame those below them for their diminishing lifestyles, rather than those above them who are taking their share of the wealth.

But no one is 'taking' anything, they open up businesses, charge certain prices and offer certain wages and other people buy their products and take their jobs. If the latter didn't happen then nor would the inequality in wealth.

No one is stealing anything here.

starfighter · 8 Oct 2013 at 12:56

People should earn their money and shouldn't have it handed to them. Just like people shouldn't inherit power, do you agree with the Monarchy too?

(By the way I will probably inherit quite a bit when my folks die, just saying ideally I shouldn't)

Efour · 8 Oct 2013 at 12:57

starfighter said:
People should earn their money and shouldn't have it handed to them. Just like people shouldn't inherit power, do you agree with the Monarchy too?

(By the way I will probably inherit quite a bit when my folks die, just saying ideally I shouldn't)

Take a stand and give it all to the local cats home

dowie · 8 Oct 2013 at 12:58

Efour said:
I'm sure there are arguments either way to say why this is fair, why shouldn't you have so much if you work hard or inherit it?

I'd separate those two tbh... there shouldn't be an issue with people accumulating wealth within their lifetime. We already tax income quite heavily - bankers bonuses, at least at larger institutions, are subject to hefty taxation - it would be a PR disaster if they were to revert to tax dodging methods like paying people in jars of platinum sponge or off shore trusts making loans to wives/girlfriends etc... I'd also throw in that some people underestimate the amount luck plays a part.

Having large pockets of inheriting wealth being passed down through successive generations can be problematic - inheritance tax is supposed to deal with this though for lots of people rich enough they can find ways of bypassing it via trusts etc...

Skidder · 8 Oct 2013 at 13:01

starfighter said:
People should earn their money and shouldn't have it handed to them. Just like people shouldn't inherit power, do you agree with the Monarchy too?

(By the way I will probably inherit quite a bit when my folks die, just saying ideally I shouldn't)

great to hear you will be donating it all to charity, good for you

Theophany · 8 Oct 2013 at 13:02

starfighter said:
People should earn their money and shouldn't have it handed to them. Just like people shouldn't inherit power, do you agree with the Monarchy too?

(By the way I will probably inherit quite a bit when my folks die, just saying ideally I shouldn't)

So you work yourself silly to make sure that your kids don't have to endure the same hardships you did, paid your taxes all your life and then, when you die, the state gets to decide arbitrarily that you haven't paid enough?

**** that noise. If tax wasn't so goddamn punitive in this country, I'd wager wealth distribution wouldn't be so mathematically unequal.

Leprechaun312 · 8 Oct 2013 at 13:02

Skidder said:
great to hear you will be donating it all to charity, good for you

starfighter · 8 Oct 2013 at 13:03

Theophany said:
So you work yourself silly to make sure that your kids don't have to endure the same hardships you did, paid your taxes all your life and then, when you die, the state gets to decide arbitrarily that you haven't paid enough?

**** that noise. If tax wasn't so goddamn punitive in this country, I'd wager wealth distribution wouldn't be so mathematically unequal.

Trust me, the Government would spend the money a hell of a lot better than this guy I know.