Website design dispute

stealthgeek · 27 Mar 2013 at 10:54

Hi OcUK'ers

My missus has a bit of a problem with a certain web design company...

Basically, the company has just emailed her and asked her to pay for design work that never made it to production, about £800 at £40 per hour. The design was never agreed on, they kept getting basics wrong such as colours, fonts etc. No contract was ever agreed, this was all done over phone or face to face.

Now, Im no legal expert, but I dont think they have a leg to stand on? I know in law a verbal agreement is viewed as the same as a written one, but if that work was never up to scratch, surely they cant bill her for the time they took consistently getting it wrong? She still has, and always had, her old site in place which is fine for her. Shes a bit worried they will pursue this with the small claims court if pushed, but Im inclined to tell them to bring it on, quite frankly.

Does anyone here have any advice?

Stelly · 27 Mar 2013 at 10:55

They don't have a leg to stand on if they don't have written confirmation on a agreed design.

Stelly

Paul11 · 27 Mar 2013 at 10:56

no paperwork, no chance..

Wayn0r · 27 Mar 2013 at 10:58

No contract, no leg to stand on, tell them were to go.

Kotu · 27 Mar 2013 at 11:01

I can't advise on the legal side of things, but what about seeing this from their perspective? Do you expect them to work for free? They might have spent 20 hours working on something where the client could not make their mind up on what they wanted, constantly making small changes because they did not like the colours or fonts. If it was me working on it then I would feel as bad as you do as ~3 days worth of work would be wasted.

inogen · 27 Mar 2013 at 11:01

They are trying it on.

However, if they don't agree with your wifes POV that they "kept getting things wrong", I understand why they would. My nose would be out of joint if someone verbally contracted me to do 20 hours of work and then said "meh, I don't like it" and refused to pay.

Is there no paper trail at all? No emails? no nothing?

the_r_sole · 27 Mar 2013 at 11:03

if you look at it from their point of view, they were asked to do some work by your wife and they haven't been paid, doesn't really matter about a written contract imo - your wife surely feels some responisbility for appointing someone to do work on her behalf??
In the worst case I would make them a gesture of settling some of the bill if the work wasn't put into production or there were problems with it, but bottom line is that they have spent their time and money doing the work and it's a horrible attitude to not pay a creative type for trying to interpret your wifes verbal ideas

inogen · 27 Mar 2013 at 11:03

Kotu said:
I can't advise on the legal side of things, but what about seeing this from their perspective? Do you expect them to work for free? They might have spent 20 hours working on something where the client could not make their mind up on what they wanted, constantly making small changes because they did not like the colours or fonts. If it was me working on it then I would feel as bad as you do as ~3 days worth of work would be wasted.

And if this is the case and there are emails discussing the changes, then you'd assume an implied contract.

cheechm · 27 Mar 2013 at 11:03

Depends whether they were actually getting it wrong or whether your wife kept changing her mind?

Pestilence · 27 Mar 2013 at 11:06

No paper trail, no business.

They can say whatever they want, but if there's no written confirmation of her seeking their business then legally they don't have a leg to stand on. Basic business knowledge: Define the scope in contract before you start.

stealthgeek · 27 Mar 2013 at 11:07

She has emails I think stating 'No, thats not what I asked for' and 'No, those arent the fonts we agreed on', buty thats about it. She's going to check her sent items for more info. I get the point about it from their perspective, but surely thats why these agreements are drawn up in the first place? If they had come to her with a contract that had provisions for design/acceptance, then fair enough, she would have to pay and I would totally agree. I can see it from both sides, but surely its their responsibility as a service provider to get these things in writing?

Point is, they didnt do any of that, and frankly their design work was unbelievably poor, very Geocities-circa late 90's with clashing colours.

Stelly · 27 Mar 2013 at 11:09

they should have presented her with a design which she then would should have signed to show that she is happy with it.

This would have then been what they would have gone off.

Stelly

Joshct · 27 Mar 2013 at 11:21

Complete opposite to this thread, but there's some nice stories about this kind of thing over at clientsfromhell.

Like i say that's from the designers point of view but...

On thread: They don't have a chance in small claims court imo if there was never any agreements in writing.

the_r_sole · 27 Mar 2013 at 11:25

but if there is instruction in writing/email form there is a contract and appointment implied so they might have a chance in the small claims court

Skidder · 27 Mar 2013 at 11:25

My clients have to pay me whether they like my work or not and I will pursue them (one on remand thanks in part to us

)

I do have the sense to provide contracts.

Surely with design work it is an iterative process until the client is happy rather than something the client abandons and then chooses not to pay. Sounds pretty dismal treatment but as ever there are two sides.

wnb · 27 Mar 2013 at 11:27

Stelly said:
they should have presented her with a design which she then would should have signed to show that she is happy with it.

This would have then been what they would have gone off.

Stelly

Thats pretty much what happened with our website.

realBabelfish · 27 Mar 2013 at 11:27

Kotu said:
I can't advise on the legal side of things, but what about seeing this from their perspective? Do you expect them to work for free? They might have spent 20 hours working on something where the client could not make their mind up on what they wanted, constantly making small changes because they did not like the colours or fonts. If it was me working on it then I would feel as bad as you do as ~3 days worth of work would be wasted.

no different in the construction industry. i can spend 2 days doing a tender for large projects and then you get an email saying everything has changed. then you dont win the contract. so, you dont always get paid for work you do.

in this case i would suggest that the company did such a poor job the client ****ed them off. quite reasonably too from what the OP says.

the_r_sole · 27 Mar 2013 at 11:29

realBabelfish said:
i can spend 2 days doing a tender for large projects

but you wouldn't go on site and build something for 2 days and then expect the client not to pay.
they were appointed to do the work, they weren't tendering for it - two entirely different things

Sakuri · 27 Mar 2013 at 11:38

£40/hr for website design? Crikey! If the design was so bad and deviated from the brief that much I can't see why you would have to pay them. Paying them an hourly rate to balls it up? I'm in the wrong business

the_r_sole · 27 Mar 2013 at 11:49

op, did your wife ever ask how much it was likely to cost?
I'd be surprised if there was never any discussion of the costs involved before the work started with or without a written contract