What age does a player stop improving at?

Psycho Sonny

Psycho Sonny

Psycho Sonny

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There's a lot of talk about x player has had z years of experience now and he is still not good enough, although slightly improving each year.

What makes you guys think that players just stop improving?

If you were to go by examples, zidane got better and better well into his career and only for the last year or so seemed that time had caught up with him, but he never stopped improving.

Its like education, it never stops, as you get older, you learn more and more each and every day. There is no limit to education. Obviously there are physical limits like speed and agility. But as a player gets more experience and learns more things, they can still improve.

Just look at Beckham and Giggs, the reason why they are a lot better than everyone around them at their age is due to experience, even when their pace and other attributes have deteriorated, they have perfected their passing and through balls and don't make the same mistakes they did when in their prime.

Now look at current examples, Anderson and Walcott have shown they are much better than they were last year, even though they have been at their club for several years.

Players never stop improving, as long as their heart is still in the game.

That is all.

Opinions?
 
Zidane improved, peoples experience makes their decision making better to a degree, but Zidane wasn't half as good a player at 25 as he was at 30+, he was the same player with the same ability and class, he was just a more refined version.

NO ONE goes from a poor player at 25 to a world class player at 35, theres rare instances a world class player is playing incredibly badly at 25 and has problems sorted years later, from 15-25 he has niggling constant injuries, or never gets to play 2 games in a row as theres a better player ahead of him, breaks a leg and takes ages to come back, everything finally gets sorted out, is finally fit, strong and is played every game and a new player shows, but I can't even think of an example of that off the top of my head.

Of all the worlds best players, almost every one showed every sign they were going to be THAT good before they hit 20, mostly long before. Ronaldo showed every trick he shows now, when he started at Utd, he was just more selfish, did one too many tricks. He's actually gotten better by doing less tricks and being more direct, he's also diving less and fighting harder but it was clear his potential was there for all to see early and his best season yet was, at 24 or so.

I can't think of any current top class player who wasn't very good young and had a massive turn around.

People get fitter, get more used to the league, theres a learning curve hitting first team from reserves, or joining a new league because players get used to how you play, and you get used to how they play.

The biggest difference is people perceptions of players, and how randomly they'll love a player for no apparent reason then decide that player is now crap. Song now seems to finally be getting called up for being stupid defensively, last year it was a Arsenal fan love in session where half the forum wanted to bear his children, this season its "does he ever not run forwards like a maniac, does he ever not foul in stupid places" etc, etc, next year they'll all be asking for him to be sold. Same happened with Denilson, he's rubbish, what a world class season, he's rubbish. Simple fact was, both were ALWAYS rubbish. Lennon, years of crap, 6 months getting lucky and still blowing cross after cross, a year of being crap.

Every manager or player who ever played with Zidane said he was something truly exceptional from the start basically.
 
From a physical point of view goalkeepers generally reach a peak in their early 30s due to the improved reaction times they have and not being so dependant on fitness. Outfield players as said 28 is the figure quoted by which point it becomes harder to maintain the same level of pace and fitness. This hits some players more than others, obviously those reliant on pace suffer the most, players with better technical ability and football brain can compensate.
 
Depends on the player, as you gain knowledge of the game you adapt and sometimes you're more effective when you slow your game down.
 
I think what probably needs to be separated is by what age will a player show enough potential to be world class, beyond which point the chances of them ever becoming so are diminished to near zero, and at what age any player will peak based on a blend of experience and fitness.
 
drunkenmaster said:
Zidane improved, peoples experience makes their decision making better to a degree, but Zidane wasn't half as good a player at 25 as he was at 30+, he was the same player with the same ability and class, he was just a more refined version.

NO ONE goes from a poor player at 25 to a world class player at 35, theres rare instances a world class player is playing incredibly badly at 25 and has problems sorted years later, from 15-25 he has niggling constant injuries, or never gets to play 2 games in a row as theres a better player ahead of him, breaks a leg and takes ages to come back, everything finally gets sorted out, is finally fit, strong and is played every game and a new player shows, but I can't even think of an example of that off the top of my head.

Of all the worlds best players, almost every one showed every sign they were going to be THAT good before they hit 20, mostly long before. Ronaldo showed every trick he shows now, when he started at Utd, he was just more selfish, did one too many tricks. He's actually gotten better by doing less tricks and being more direct, he's also diving less and fighting harder but it was clear his potential was there for all to see early and his best season yet was, at 24 or so.

I can't think of any current top class player who wasn't very good young and had a massive turn around.

People get fitter, get more used to the league, theres a learning curve hitting first team from reserves, or joining a new league because players get used to how you play, and you get used to how they play.

The biggest difference is people perceptions of players, and how randomly they'll love a player for no apparent reason then decide that player is now crap. Song now seems to finally be getting called up for being stupid defensively, last year it was a Arsenal fan love in session where half the forum wanted to bear his children, this season its "does he ever not run forwards like a maniac, does he ever not foul in stupid places" etc, etc, next year they'll all be asking for him to be sold. Same happened with Denilson, he's rubbish, what a world class season, he's rubbish. Simple fact was, both were ALWAYS rubbish. Lennon, years of crap, 6 months getting lucky and still blowing cross after cross, a year of being crap.

Every manager or player who ever played with Zidane said he was something truly exceptional from the start basically.
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Diego Forlan?

Probably had the best performance of his life last season for club and country and he couldn't score for UTD earlier on in his career.

Also Diego Milito had the best season's performance of his career last year too.

Forlan last year was 100 times the player he was at united.
 
There's been some pretty serious analysis of this and apparently it's very hard to judge a player's potential at 18 but relatively easy by the time that there's 22-23. If they don't show signs at that age then they'll never make it.

And most players are washed up by the time they're 30. A lot earlier than one would assumed.

Of course, this is a general trend and there are exceptions. Didier Drogba was still playing 2nd division French football when he was 24.
 
On average I would say 25-26. But totally depends on the player and their luck with injuries. Look at Owen, he had the world at his feet when he was 16-19, then rapidly declined mostly because of injuries. But then you look at a player like Teddy Sheringham who was quality throughout his career because he didn't rely on physical attributes. Sheringham arguably reached his peak at Man Utd, later on in his career.
 
Jokester said:
From a physical point of view goalkeepers generally reach a peak in their early 30s due to the improved reaction times they have and not being so dependant on fitness. Outfield players as said 28 is the figure quoted by which point it becomes harder to maintain the same level of pace and fitness. This hits some players more than others, obviously those reliant on pace suffer the most, players with better technical ability and football brain can compensate.
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I don't think theres a single top keeper in the world at the moment who wasn't absolutely world class WELL before 28. Take the 3 most successful/expensive/paid keepers(most likely) Buffon who was 30mil at what, 22 and was considered the best in the world at that age. Casillas and Valdes, both very good and in title winning teams from early 20's. VDS was considered world class LONG before he got to UTD. Fabianski is quite obviously better than Almunia and has been at his current level since he was young. Cech was considered the best league keeper and one of the best in the world from well before 28 aswell, Shay Given's been quality for donkeys years, Joe Hart, Green/Robinson were well below 28 when they were considered pretty damn good and Green for the past I dunno 3-4 games has been truly fantastic again, pulling off a huge number of great saves against Utd for instance, ie back to his best.

THe 28 for keepers is just random rubbish pulled out of the air. Its also often because 10 years ago an established top 3-4 club in any league would often have an established world class keeper and buy in a VERY good younger keeper, but they would be second string till one of the old generation of great keepers kicked the bucket(in football quality terms). These days if a keeper is very good they are far more likely to get an earlier look in.

Tunney said:
There's been some pretty serious analysis of this and apparently it's very hard to judge a player's potential at 18 but relatively easy by the time that there's 22-23. If they don't show signs at that age then they'll never make it.

And most players are washed up by the time they're 30. A lot earlier than one would assumed.

Of course, this is a general trend and there are exceptions. Didier Drogba was still playing 2nd division French football when he was 24.
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Yes, theres almost no player you can't see if they are going to make it by 22, and I'd say they will be at 95-98% of their final ability level. That doesn't mean stats don't improve and players don't get better. Ronaldo at 22 wasn't scoring nearly as much as he was at 24, or today, but he was still almost entirely the same player, just playing in a team with a different setup, a more 4-4-2, where he was crossing and passing more than shooting. As the team moved into a 4-3-3 and he was essentially a 3rd striker, he scored more, his ability hasn't changed dramatically, his style of play hasn't changed, he just has a different role.

I'd also say the idea of players being washed up at 30 is nonsense, there are dozens of world class players who go beyond that, but theres dozens who don't. However injuries catch up with players, and being a millionaire(most world class players are easily millionaires by that point) dragging yourself out onto a cold field with a dodgey knee and going through multiple surgeries shockingly losses its appeal.

Around 30, with 10mil in the bank, the DRIVE to be world class dries up in a lot of players, rather than the ability.

Drogba is got significantly better in the past couple seasons, and again I'd describe that as getting back to his best, in a more direct role, not his ability changing. Lampard is still fantastic, VDS, Pires was still awesome before he left Arsenal and had 3 awesome years at Villarael despite a awful knee injury in the first season.
 
drunkenmaster said:
I don't think theres a single top keeper in the world at the moment who wasn't absolutely world class WELL before 28. Take the 3 most successful/expensive/paid keepers(most likely) Buffon who was 30mil at what, 22 and was considered the best in the world at that age. Casillas and Valdes, both very good and in title winning teams from early 20's. VDS was considered world class LONG before he got to UTD. Fabianski is quite obviously better than Almunia and has been at his current level since he was young. Cech was considered the best league keeper and one of the best in the world from well before 28 aswell, Shay Given's been quality for donkeys years, Joe Hart, Green/Robinson were well below 28 when they were considered pretty damn good and Green for the past I dunno 3-4 games has been truly fantastic again, pulling off a huge number of great saves against Utd for instance, ie back to his best.
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I never said keepers stopped at 28...

The point is, since peoples reaction speeds improve into their early 30s so keepers can improve into their 30s as a result as there not restricted by the start of detioration of fitness and pace in their late 20s that outfield players suffer from. Look at the players of Giggs and Scholes age, it's very rare for players of that age to still be playing at a top class level, whilst it's fairly routine for a keeper to play into his mid to late 30s at the same level.

Good keepers have always got a look in, it's why a lot of countries most capped player is a keeper.
 
am I right in thinking Drogba hit the heights quite late on? Im sure I read that somewhere recently

He must have been mid twenties before he showed his current form?
 
Psycho Sonny said:
Forlan last year was 100 times the player he was at united.
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That could be due to anything though and not necessarily age. He could have realised how poorly he'd played and started to train harder, moved to a place where he fitted in better and so mentally was stronger and able to play better, etc..
 
I reckon Chris Waddle played his best stuff between 33 and 35. Again, another player that didn't rely on his physical attibutes so much as skill and thought. Very very quick feet and change of pace though so there was still a physical aspect to his game.
 
Drogba was a late starter, but family travelling aronnd meant he sidn't get picked up. 21 iirc.

Forlan got bullied in the EPL and also bottled it - ronaldo had the same and toughened up better.

The best just appear to get better by doing new things to them that their experience of 20+ years of football has taught them; this CB will do that, the RB under that manager is told to attack at will, this keeper sets himself in a certain way. Looking after the body helps too, Giggs, VDS, Scholes for Man U but look at Maldini when he was playing - 20 seasons+.

Others like that - Berdkamp at Arsenal, Blanc at Man U, Makalele at Chelsea, Anelka at...everywhere:D I'd also say Kevin Phillips for an honourable mention. Sstill scoring goals at 39.

But as has been said, world class players are that at 16/17. It is just so easy to lose in so many was and so damn hard to keep up
 
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