What are your thoughts on an integrated phase-change cooling case with these features and how much would you pay for it?

[Darsim]

I have been designing a case that integrates phase-change cooling for the last couple of years and I have tried to solve as many of the problems that I found we face when we try to go toward sub-ambient or sub-zero cooling. So, here are the key features of the case, and please give your thoughts on it:

• The case will have an integrated phase-change cooling system that works as a chiller for sub-zero cooling for both CPU and GPU. You will have the option to run the phase-change cooler continuously or in high-demanding situations the chiller to kick in. You can turn on and off the chilling system anytime you want switching between sub-zero cooling and normal liquid cooling.
• Removing the need to insulate the components of the PC entirely. One of the most annoying things about cooling PC components to anything lower than room temperature is condensation. Whenever you try to chill a PC, you have to insulate everything that cools down below ambient temperature. You have to use a kneaded eraser on the motherboard around the CPU. You also need to insulate many things with foam which takes the fun out of cooling your PC to sub-ambient temperatures. So, I have designed the case in a way that eliminates the need to insulate any component of the PC. you can change any of the PC parts easily and none of the parts are ruined with insulation material like kneaded eraser or Vaseline in the CPU socket.
• Usually, phase-change cooling comes with the drawback of the loud noise that comes from the AC compressor. So, to reduce the noise, I have designed a patent-pending casing for the AC compressor to reduce its noise to be equal to or even lower than the noise generated by conventional PC fans. This means that the case will be as quiet as a normal desktop PC with let's say Noctua NF-A12 fans at mid-range speed.
• The case will also have an integrated test bench that holds the motherboard, GPU, PSU, three 3.5” drives, and two 2.5” drives. You can insert the test bench into and out of the case with a couple of quick releases. It makes the building of the case very easy or even changing parts.
• This case eliminates dust on the main components of the case especially the parts that are on the test bench. The motherboard, GPU, and the drives will be as clean as the day the PC was built.
• The case includes two 360mm or 240mm radiators based on configuration, a phase-change cooling system that contains an (AC compressor, condenser, heat exchanger), reservoir, and water pump combo, and between 9 to 12 fans.

 

[Darsim]

In my opinion, even though I hav

e designed it, I believe that this case that I have designed looks elegant.

 

[Darsim]

Out of interest how are you getting around the need to insulate components without running the whole MB under the phase change cooling?

With a semi-sealed chamber and dehumidification. temperature and humidity control and everything inside the chamber is done with a custom multi-functional heat exchange that I have designed. The cost of making the multi-functional heat exchanger is very small for what it does.

 

[Darsim]

A big drawback of cases like this is compatibility. Imagine you bought something like this for an AM4 system, and then it didn't fit AM5. An entire very expensive case would be rendered useless. On the other hand, a standard ATX case from 20 years ago is still compatible with today's parts.

The case is an ATX standard and it will fit every motherboard from mini ITX to ATX motherboards. It is no difference from conventional cases that are in the market. The only difference is that you will always need risers for your GPU that's all

 

[Darsim]

Eatx motherboard support?
And this may be better posted in
Overclocking and cooling section of Forum
Or watercooling

Sounds interesting though

It does not support EATX motherboards because it has a horizontal version as well and it will be too wide if it would support EATX.
Actually, I wanted to post it in the overclocking section but because it is a new hardware design, I thought it fit here better.

 

[Darsim]

For what it's worth
And I know case design is subjective
What one person likes another may hate
Personally I think it looks great
Especially in black and gold

Some things I guess
May be suitable for multiple forum sections
I don't normally look in general hardware
Whereas watercooling and overclocking I always look

Thank you for your complements. Is ther a way to change the section to overclocking?

 

[Darsim]

Think you need a mod/admin/Don
However you want to call them
To move it for you
There's a list of them somewhere
If you can find it you can tag one
My memory isn't the best lol
So usually I do @Feek
Since he's got an easy to remember name lol

Thank you

 

[Darsim]

*moved*

Thank you

 

[Darsim]

How would you maintain compatibility between Intel and AMD and future sockets ?

You don’t need to keep compatibility, you can choose any kind of motherboard as long as it is equal to or smaller that ATX and choose the CPU socket that you wish for. The system is chilled for sub-zero cooling and basically nowadays any water block you choose is compatible with both Intel and AMD sockets.

 

[Darsim]

Vapochill!! That's a blast from the past.

Loud compressors, power usage and fine tuning the sweet spot, i'm not sure i'd bother with it these days with what little you'd get back out of it.

The rI have solved the loud compressor noise and the vapochill is on demand. The system is both liquid cooled and chilled with phase-change cooling.

 

[Darsim]

Just to clarify - are you planning to run a chiller unit in the cooler box that cools the liquid that flows through the main case? Chiller and Phase Change always meant different things to me back in the day. I've run both over the years (still regret letting my Vapochill Mach 1 go), great fun, but the diminishing returns seldom justified the cost . I still have an old chiller in the garage that I keep meaning to dig out and us for a ghetto build. There were a couple of issues with chillers that always plagued us that you may or may not have considered.

• Condensation, as you say, is a pain. I like your solution - seems elegant, but will be intrigued to see whether is is effective at really low temperatures.
• What temperatures are you aiming for? Chillers do work to get your temps below ambient, but I suspect you will really struggle to get them down to zero, and below. Especially as it looks like you are planning to cool everything in the case with it - bear in mind that sealing the case means all cooling will be done by the chiller - CPU/GPU aren't the only things producing heat!
• What advantage are you aiming for? To justify the cost, you will presumably be looking to offer a performance boost? Have you looked at the cost/gain of what you are planning - diminishing returns are a killer with most of this stuff - just look at how little traction TEC (peltier) got.
• If it is about aesthetics however - love it!! Clean and "cool" - given how much we spend on cosmetics in builds (just look in the build log section), don't let anyone tell you people won't spend for looks

If it is just a fun project then please put a build log in the build section - would love to follow the progress

The my system works is a liquid cooling loop and a phase-change cooling loop meets at a heat exchanger point inside the semi-sealed chamber. The room temperature liquid will be chilled to around -20C because I’m using R290 refrigerant and a compressor with cooling capacity of around a 1000W of cooling capacity. The chilled liquid enters enters the CPU at around -20C.

• For the condensation, I have designed it in a way that you don’t have to worry about condensation at any temperature even if you are looking at liquid nitrogen temperatures. The air inside the chamber is dehumidified with the phase-change cooling system and it will always have a lower temperature than around the CPU and other components in the chamber. Thus, the dew point will always be lower than the temperature that the air gets around the CPU or GPU. I have gone this way because I had concerns around reducing the humidity inside the chamber to zero because it might have affects on the PCBs and components and lead to cracking.
• The way I have done the chilling of the liquid, it will always get to below zero and the liquid I will be using is a version of antifreeze. The components will affect the cooling somewhat but most of it will be dealt with the liquid cooling loop. The only things that will need cooling inside the chamber will be VRMs, SSDs, and motherboard controller chip which does not emits that large of an amount of heat.
• The advantages that I’m aiming for is easy to build sub-zero cooling PCs. You will always have better performance wether it is today or or 10 years from now. You will have on-demand sub-zero cooling meaning that you don’t have to commit to sub-zero cooling and use lots of energy even when your PC is at idle.
• Actually, when I looked at any of the systems that are out there, I didn’t like any of them like TEC, chillers, or anything to manage sub-zero cooling because all of them were very hard for average PC buolder or users to manage the building of the PC and maintaining it. I have made sure for the Case to have as much looking after and maintaining it as a regular air cooled PC case.
• I have designed the case in a way that the phase-change cooling system will be modular and you can buy the case without the phase change cooling system and be able to add it in the future. You will still maintain the features such as dust elimination and having an integrated test bench.
• Aesthetics also is very important to me and I specifically designed it to look more elegant and can be used for both businesses and gamers. Its all made up of 2mm thick aluminium even thought it will be a bit harder to manufacture.

I know that many of the things I say seems absurd but the issue is that I can’t every detail of the case because I’m currently trying to find a way of manufacturing it. I already have prepared a 40 page detailed specification and explanation of the case that I can’t share right now.

If this case got nowhere and couldn’t put it in the market, I will share everything to public for free.

 

[Darsim]

A compressor running as quiet as a NF-A12, yeah that's believable.

Yes, I know it seems absurd but I can’t prove it to you until I will be able to manufacture it. The design for reducing the compressor noise that dramatically is already patent-pending.

 

[Darsim]

For a moment
Lets assume everything works perfectly

Biggest issue is what's it going to cost
Just the case if you fully use 2mm aluminium on everything
Isn't going to be cheap
Most cases nowadays use aluminium on some bits
But the rest is just steel

Then add the cost of your cooling system

Not that us custom watercooling guys
Aren't used to putting our hands in our wallet lol
And yes are you going to do crowd source funding?
Kickstarter etc

Yes, for a case that has that many features and comes with radiators, phase-change cooling system, waterpump and so on, it won't be cheap. The LD PC V10 Phase Change case is between $1,200 to $1,600 depending on where you look.

For the funding, I'm looking to colaburate with a case manufacturer and my thought process is not to make money on it. I just want to prove that something like that can be done. but if I won't be able to find a case manufacturer to colaburate with, I will most likely fund it myself but it will going to take time. I'm not really looking for a crowd funding at the moment.

 

[Darsim]

I used to run phase a system with both phase change cooling on the CPU and phase change chiller on the GPU, in a custom case made out of joining two cube cases together (I might have even posted photos on the forums). This was around 15+ years ago.

But does this level of cooling still have a place for daily use with today's CPUs?
As I see it, phase change cooling, or chilling these days is really for heavy overclockers that are looking to beat CPU overclocking records. But these CPUs are not expected to be used daily at the required voltages and overclocks.
Outside of that, I'm struggling to see the purpose/benefit. Using the latest standard coolers, the margin for overclocking improvements with phase change is much smaller than it used to be, and by the time you factor in the electric costs, very few people are going to see it being worthwhile.

Fascinating project though and would love to see how this comes together even if it's just an experiment.

Thats true that today's CPUs degrade faster and not built for on-going overclocking. But thats why I'm approaching on-demand sub-zero cooling so that you need to over power your CPU.

You say that liquid or air cooling is good enough for cooling today's CPUs, but just take a look at the latest generations of intel core i9s like 13900K, or the new 14900K, they are all thermally bound and you can unlock quite a bit by sub-zero cooling.

Another thing is cooling in hot climates. I personally live in a place that reaches 50C in the summer frequently, My PC is struggling and starts to thermal throttle the moment you start a slightly intensive task.

If you deploy this case in a business, Businesses care a lot about reliability and eae of maitenance. You will reduce fluctuations in performace dramatically. and for a business, their thought process will be that with one time purchase of a case like this, the will get higher performance in the futer no matter what kind of CPU they use.

Thank you for showing your interest, if anything happens I will make sure to update it here.

 

[Darsim]

Yeah assuming a few thousand pounds
For the full thing
Would be cheaper and easier
In most cases just to air con the room

Taking my own pc room as an example
My watercooled pc
Can dump enough heat
To increase the rooms ambient temperature
By quite a few degrees
Your more effective cooling would raise it
Even more

So in a 50c room
The heat your dumping would have an effect
Unless it was vented outside
So your pc may be a lot cooler
But the pc users won't

But yes the latest top end cpus
Do run extremely hot
With 95c being acceptable according to amd and intel
So your device may allow higher overclocking
Than just air con the room ambient
To a comfortable level for the PC user

It's still interesting
Given we only have limited information
Bit of a niche product maybe
But so is full custom watercooling
And plenty of us do it lol

Yes, in some cases, it is a good idea to air condition the room but you are not going to have the portability of this case if you want to take it from one room to another and you have to freeze yourself to death to minimize the fluctuations in the temperature variance of the room and you have to cool an entire room in order to cool your PC. But, as you said it will have slight disadvantages and advantages as well. Designing products is always about compromise.

The unfortunate thing is that I can't explain everything. That's why I look like a ridiculous person talking nonsense.

 

[Darsim]

Much easier to reuse/transplant or sell on watercooling kit though.

It works like a chiller because it cools the liquid and the phase-change cooling system does not interact with the PC components directly. you will still have a normal CPU block and things and it will be the same as them to reuse them or sell them. Assembly and disassembly will be the same as a liquid-cooled system.