What did maggie do?

[JimmyEatWorms]

Her "no such thing as society" quote sums her up o me and it is that very attitude that has seen society and community spirit crumble over the past 25 years. People are only interested in themselves these days.

 

[VIRII]

"You suck like a leech, you want everyone to act like you. Kiss ass while you bitch so you can rich while your boss gets richer off you."

Thatcher didn't have the general populace in mind when she was in power. She had her friends and cronies in industry and the upper echelons in mind.

You should always vote for the individual who represents best both your personal views and your own economic and social background.

*n

The Dead Kennedies lyrics could equally apply to Blair, Kinnock, Scargill or anyone of the left wing politicians and Union leaders of the day.
Oh they wont give bus drivers a 30% pay rise, quick get everyone on strike.

Do you recall the gravediggers refusing to dig graves, the rubbish collectors refusing to collect rubbish, the rats, the TV going off, the lack of electricity, the lack of food ? I do.
All these people claiming that everyone became out for themselves after Thatcher - what cobblers, These people were all out for themselves in the first place, that what the unions were all about, more money for ME, stuff what it does to everyone else.

 

[VIRII]

Her "no such thing as society" quote sums her up o me and it is that very attitude that has seen society and community spirit crumble over the past 25 years. People are only interested in themselves these days.

Union members were always only interested in themselves. That was the only reason to be in one.

 

[NonOfTheAbove]

I think economics should be compulsory to A level for all students so that they can see the mechanisms for an economy to spiral into decay.

I've got an 'A' level in Economics & could argue this either way with the conflicting paradigms I learnt.

Is there a positive economic model which has suggested privatising octopoid industries (& by that I mean rail & water provision rather than anything directly relating to octopii, or octopusses) in any way?

Was putting profit before safety ever worthwhile?

How can the privatised octopoid industries ever hope to compete with each other?

Thatcher's economic 'success' is dubious in the extreme. Examining child poverty figures from the 3 day week period it would appear we were far better off as a culture with stronger unions than in the later 'entrepreneur' period.

 

[robmiller]

Rob from the poor to give to the rich.. yep that sounds like Maggie's redistributive policies.

It's funny that the more time that passes since her political demise, the more rosed tinted people's glasses become about her. It's especially amusing people who are only kids now wanting her back - they were in nappies in the 80s.

Tell me about it! I was alive for just three years of her being Prime Minister, and yet there are idiots in my year who are, for some inane reason, completely in love with her - despite knowing nothing of her or her policies. It's really, really weird and more than slightly scary.

 

[VIRII]

I've got an 'A' level in Economics & could argue this either way with the conflicting paradigms I learnt.

Is there a positive economic model which has suggested privatising octopoid industries (& by that I mean rail & water provision rather than anything directly relating to octopii, or octopusses) in any way?

Was putting profit before safety ever worthwhile?

How can the privatised octopoid industries ever hope to compete with each other?

Thatcher's economic 'success' is dubious in the extreme. Examining child poverty figures from the 3 day week period it would appear we were far better off as a culture with stronger unions than in the later 'entrepreneur' period.

There is nothing there other than supposition.
Unions were not striking over safety issues they were striking over pay. It was all about money and greed.
Even basic economics would teach you the simple things such as wage demands pushing inflation being bad for an ecomony and unsustainable.
You then suggest that Thatchers economic success can be measured in terms of cultural values ?????
A firm nationally owned or otherwise has to compete with foreign firms in a free market. A firms profitability is determined by its costs. Costs can not rise indefinately and if they do then that firm can not maintain its market position.
Unions greed destroyed our nationalised industries. It is as simple as that.

 

[VIRII]

Tell me about it! I was alive for just three years of her being Prime Minister, and yet there are idiots in my year who are, for some inane reason, completely in love with her - despite knowing nothing of her or her policies. It's really, really weird and more than slightly scary.

What is more scary is the refusal of some people to look back at facts in unemotive ways and assess the impact the decisions made then have now.
Even Gordon Brown attributes todays current economic success to Thatcher.
For those who are oblivious to things he is the Chancellor of the Exchequer - hopefully he knows more about Economics and running the finances of a country than most of us do. That said the credit bubble is about to deflate and the high street is about to shed a lot of jobs.

 

[marin]

I can still remember the day the torys got in power I was 19 at the time and it was the first time I could vote. My god, what a mess she made of the country.

This country was already in a mess before the Conservatives gained power, I can still remember the winter of discontentment when I did my homework by candlelight.

People will ague about the pros and cons of the Conservatives under Maggie for ever, all I can say is thank God that the Conservatives came to power when they did, you all sit out there in your homes using computers and all the other trappings of modern life, but fail to realise how bad things were in this country.

I reckon this country would be bankrupt today with massive unemployment if it had not have been for the Conservatives & Maggie.

That’s not to say that everything they did was correct, but Labour today have done things that they should be ashamed of (I hope the Conservatives would not have done them) such as fees for University and the way they under fund local Councils so that they put up Council Tax every year.

 

[vanpeebles]

What is more scary is the refusal of some people to look back at facts in unemotive ways and assess the impact the decisions made then have now.

probably because i or they can still see poverty stricken towns and estates that used to be ok places with a sense of community. the union thing is one argument but theres no ignoring what her rule did to the people of this country and its never been the same place since.

 

[VIRII]

probably because i or they can still see poverty stricken towns and estates that used to be ok places with a sense of community. the union thing is one argument but theres no ignoring what her rule did to the people of this country and its never been the same place since.

OK let's pretend that she had never come to power and these mines had remained open. Do you think they would still be open ? Do you really think that they could be sustained forever ?
Do you think the world owes you a job and a living ? How did those communities come to exist ? They were not ALWAYS there where they ?
That is right people migrated to those places to find work once upon a time and guess what they have to migrate to new places to find work in the end.

A healthy dose of reality and unemotive common sense is required.

Just to put things into some perspective. If OCUK emplyees demanded huge pay rises and they stopped being a very competitive place to buy from would you still buy from them out of some sense of allegiance to the employees and their personal society and circumstances ? No, I did not think so.

Ironically I think they might reopen those pits eventually such is the Chinese requirement for steel and coal.

 

[player]

Well VIRII would you explain to me why coal mining seems viable in other MEDCS whilst in Britain the industry has virtually ceased to exist?

 

[VIRII]

Well VIRII would you explain to me why coal mining seems viable in other MEDCS whilst in Britain the industry has virtually ceased to exist?

What do you think the start up costs of re-opening a pit would be ?
Of course linking to some examples would be good too .......

 

[dirtydog]

Do you recall the gravediggers refusing to dig graves, the rubbish collectors refusing to collect rubbish, the rats, the TV going off, the lack of electricity, the lack of food ? I do.

The three day week and rubbish piling up on the streets happened under Ted Heath's Conservative reign from 1970-74. It's not as if the country was in a wonderful state when Labour won in 74 was it!

 

[dirtydog]

What is more scary is the refusal of some people to look back at facts in unemotive ways and assess the impact the decisions made then have now.
Even Gordon Brown attributes todays current economic success to Thatcher.

Gordon Brown is a complete (insert any number of words which are against forum rules).

FWIW I do think Thatcher did some good things and I've never said she didn't. The people who think the sun shone out of her arse however need to take the rose tints off.

For those who are oblivious to things he is the Chancellor of the Exchequer - hopefully he knows more about Economics and running the finances of a country than most of us do.

In theory... in practice I wouldn't let him run my household budget.

 

[VIRII]

The three day week and rubbish piling up on the streets happened under Ted Heath's Conservative reign from 1970-74. It's not as if the country was in a wonderful state when Labour won in 74 was it!

Absolutely the unions were already far too powerful, greedy and entrenched.
A shame it took another 7 years or so for someone with enough spine to sort it out to come along.

 

[VIRII]

Gordon Brown is a complete (insert any number of words which are against forum rules).

FWIW I do think Thatcher did some good things and I've never said she didn't. The people who think the sun shone out of her arse however need to take the rose tints off.

In theory... in practice I wouldn't let him run my household budget.

Thatchers legacy is the death of the Unions it was by far the most important economic decision in my lifetime. It was a bitter pill, it did hurt a lot of people but it had to happen and would have naturally happened eventually but at the cost of the whole economy forever.
Joining Europe though GRRRR the ERM GRRRRRR and certain other policies did suck. I'd still prefer polltax to council tax though.

 

[dirtydog]

Sorting out the unions is the one thing she can take credit for. The rest however is not something to be proud of.

 

[DoCoMo]

I'd still prefer polltax to council tax though.

eh?? You'd rather pay a tax per head instead of per household?
Weren't there some really bad riots over the poll tax?

 

[dirtydog]

I'd still prefer polltax to council tax though.

In my personal (single occupier household) circumstances I would be better off under the poll tax. Personally I think that both systems are inherently unfair and flawed although the poll tax is probably fairer on balance. Anyway you may recall my views on this and my favoured solution from SC in the past

 

[VIRII]

eh?? You'd rather pay a tax per head instead of per household?
Weren't there some really bad riots over the poll tax?

My polltax was about £300 per annum, my council tax is £1500.
People did not see why they should pay an equal amount towards the services they use. I don't see why they shouldn't.
Why should I pay more to have my rubbish removed than the family next door who make 2x as much mess ?

Now we have a situation where council tax rises every year as Govt subsidies to areas become more and more politically defined. Labour voter area ? Send more Govt funding. Don't vote Labour ? Cut Govt funding resulting in Local Councils having to increase the tax burden on those who have to pay it.