What Intel?

[Dennisthemenace]

I'm now ready for a couple of processors for a couple of systems i'm building, both 775 pentiums. Having dug around i recon buy low end and overclock to high end, buying high end seems a waste of dosh. Because of the bad press reports in various mags, am i right in thinking the 600's are a better choice than the dual cores at the moment.

Also, is there any reason why the silly 31 segment pipeline? From what i understand it's the only reason Intel are in soooooooooo many doghouses.

 

[Raikiri]

I would say get an AMD, but if it must be intel then pentium M would be preferable.

If you already have the motherboards then the 630/640 would be fine.
Might want to wait for the new dual core cpus though they are supposed to be clocking well.

 

[Phemo]

Also, is there any reason why the silly 31 segment pipeline? From what i understand it's the only reason Intel are in soooooooooo many doghouses.

Yes, the more stages there are in the pipeline, the easier it is to ramp up to higher clock speeds. So, they have a 31 stage pipeline simply to hit higher speeds - of course, at the cost of efficiency.

Luckily Intel have learnt from their mistakes - can't wait to see Conroe and Merom

 

[Dennisthemenace]

I would say get an AMD, but if it must be intel then pentium M would be preferable.

If you already have the motherboards then the 630/640 would be fine.
Might want to wait for the new dual core cpus though they are supposed to be clocking well.

Trouble with waiting for the new core that Intel are about to unleash on the world is their habit of throwing in a new socket for them, Intel's history in that department sucks a little.

 

[Raikiri]

I think they are sticking to 775, but you need their new super high end chipset or something. Havent really been paying attention tbh

 

[Phemo]

Trouble with waiting for the new core that Intel are about to unleash on the world is their habit of throwing in a new socket for them, Intel's history in that department sucks a little.

I quite agree. Sorry, didn't mean to go slightly off-topic. To give you my opinion on your question, it really depends what the computers would be used for. Depending on their purpose, a lower clocked dual-core processor will trounce a fast overclocked chip.

With that said, it might be worth hanging on for a while to check out the overclocking results of the dual core Presler 920. It's 2.8GHz stock, I've heard of a few reports of people getting these around 4GHz. Although they're LGA775, motherboard compatibility could still be a problem so check that out too.

 

[G550]

One of the main reasons for the disappoinment with Intels Prescott based processors is electrical efficiency.

Comparing like for like, a typical Prescott based P4 processor consumes more power doing nothing than its equivalent Athlon64/Opteron does when working flat out.

Intels recently introduced 65nm process has gone a fair way to addressing the current leakage problems that plagued the P4s on the 90nm process, but even allowing for the larger cache, they still struggle to match the electrical efficiency of the 90nm AMD processors.

 

[AWPC]

3.8Ghz 670J can be pushed to 5Ghz on air cooling. 6Ghz+ on water. 7Ghz+ on phase. Best CPU they have @ the moment TBH. Even destroys the new 955XE chip for clock speeds (even when its overclocked as far as it can go).

Not that I'm biased as I own one but it is a great CPU and with the proper cooling + a huge overclock should be fast enough for @ least a few more years. Even @ standard speed the FPS in games is less than 10% behind an FX57 in most games so doubt in the real world you would notice it much.

Any task in Windows/Office/IE/ is mighty quick & DVD/Music Ripping is right up there with the other top performers from AMD + Intel.

Forget the heat myth as well. Mine idles in the low 40c and rarely gets much about 55c under an extreme load. Good case cooling with several low noise fans (and common sense as to their placement) is the key to keeping the prescott temps down.

Sure everyone knows AMD are faster for most tasks but for all round use you just cannot go wrong with any Intel 6 series as they all give amazing overclocks which can beat the FX55-F57s.

Another factor in their favour is that a 1066FSB is easy with the right mobo (925XE & higher) so you can then reduce the multiplier to find the right balance for your other components.

 

[blade007]

3.8Ghz 670J can be pushed to 5Ghz on air cooling. 6Ghz+ on water. 7Ghz+ on phase. Best CPU they have @ the moment TBH. Even destroys the new 955XE chip for clock speeds (even when its overclocked as far as it can go).

very useful info. I like intel for a well-rounded machine.

 

[Raikiri]

Another factor in their favour is that a 1066FSB is easy with the right mobo (925XE & higher) so you can then reduce the multiplier to find the right balance for your other components.

Why havent you then? come on we want some scores...

Oh and 55c load isnt that low, my AMD when OCed 25% is only 38c load

 

[AWPC]

Why havent you then? come on we want some scores...

Oh and 55c load isnt that low, my AMD when OCed 25% is only 38c load

Because I am waiting to get a new GFX card from OCUK next week (7800GTX512 or X1900XTX). My current mobo is only AGP & 800FSB. When I have built the PCI-E system (Asus P5WD2Premium mobo + Corsair DDR266-2) will do the scores. It supports DDR800-2 so may get some of that as well to see how much a boost running 1:1 gives!

Intel are always hotter than AMD but the overclocking potential is huge (up to 80% with the right cooling) and they appear to be designed to run @ these high temps. Even the stock Intel HSFs allow a mild overclock and perfect stability.

You can safely hit up to 75c before thermal throttling kicks in. Most of the high temps reported for Intel are caused by very poor installation. For the entire P4 range it clearly states in all their documents/instructions that they should be installed professionally (or by enthusiasts who know what they are doing). As long as a P4 has adequate case ventilation (say 3-5 silent 80mm fans would be enough depending on case layout + airflow or you could go for just 2x120mm silent fans) and the HSF is mounted correctly (thermal paste applied properly) the temps are well within operating specs.

The problems seem to arrive when inexperience people try to run a P4 in a case with maybe 1 intake fan and no exhaust. Then the temps do rise greatly and thermal throttling kicks in very quickly (especially if the CPU is being taxed heavily).This also has a negative effect on the PSU as that heats up more and its fan (if it is temp controlled) will increase its rpm generating more noise & heat.

Both Anandtech & Tomshardware (and many others) made this mistake in most of their P4 reviews then never bothered to correct it.

A properly setup P4 is by far the best allround CPU to own as you can do everything on it and losing a few FPS to the equivalent AMD is easily worth it for the massive flexibility on offer. In real world gaming scenarios you could not easily notice the difference between an AMD vs P4 using the same Gfx card/drivers/os in a blind test with no way to know beforehand which was which. Benchmarks are a useful guide to find bottlenecks but so many other factors come into play most side by side tests are rarely accurate.

 

[Raikiri]

80% OC, seen 100% on AMDs... still not convinced in the slightest

 

[Phemo]

A properly setup P4 is by far the best allround CPU to own as you can do everything on it and losing a few FPS to the equivalent AMD is easily worth it for the massive flexibility on offer. In real world gaming scenarios you could not easily notice the difference between an AMD vs P4 using the same Gfx card/drivers/os in a blind test with no way to know beforehand which was which. Benchmarks are a useful guide to find bottlenecks but so many other factors come into play most side by side tests are rarely accurate.

I do agree with everything you're saying, but the only thing I am having problems finding evidence of is that the 670Js overclock to 5GHz. I'm not saying you're wrong but from a quick Google search (and I do mean quick) I can only find people getting 4 to 4.5GHz out of them which is still pretty good. I don't doubt that there are 670Js hitting 5GHz but from the looks of things, it's not the norm.

80% OC, seen 100% on AMDs... still not convinced in the slightest

No offence but he's not really trying to convince you of anything - he's telling you his opinion. How well AMD chips overclock means nothing when he's giving his opinion of the P4 - which he has backed up pretty well. I'm an AMD man myself but I'm not going to mention that in every P4 thread unless there's a good reason to - like now

 

[NathanE]

Plenty of P4's have been past 5GHz on air. Take a look at this forum: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=56

 

[Raikiri]

Plenty of P4's have been past 5GHz on air. Take a look at this forum: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=56

I see one on air, using a massive cooler in a VERY cold room (the northbridge is 11c!!) and it was still hitting almost 60c on load out of a case.

So it will be very hard to get 5ghz+ without incredible cooling all the time, things like summer can cause problems

 

[NathanE]

I agree, "on air" is a very vague term.

But really, what were you expecting All OCing has its inherent risks and disadvantages. Those types of overclocks are just done to prove it can be done. People like to know how far an architecture can theoretically scale.

To me the best overclocking is when people say "on stock cooling"... because then you know for certain it is a real world overclock.

 

[Raikiri]

I wasnt saying it couldnt be done, just saying he is being VERY optimistic to get 5ghz on air with any sort of cooling, not all year round anway.

My overclock was on stock cooling (25%) just upgraded to the arctic freezer pro due to it being a little quieter and cos it was on offer

 

[Dennisthemenace]

Those types of overclocks are just done to prove it can be done.

I do it because i'm skint

 

[Raikiri]

I do it because i'm skint

No, not that large of an OC you dont, it would kill the chip if in a case and a normal room temp using air cooling.

But in general thats why most people OC, my cpu is as fast as a 4000+ which would cost over £150 more

 

[Byron]

guys guys, all this about intel overclocking on air is done most of the times at low ambient temperature and very big/noisy fans... also not all cpu batches are the same so not all of them go that high, besides don't forget that they never run stable at that high speeds... they usually do it for fun and get some screenies and benches done.

Just for your info my 920D runs at 4.2ghz on water, runs stable at 24/7 use and 1.4vcore within room temp where a living being can survive 365days a year (27oC that is... )

best 185£ spend tbh and i'm sure there is plenty more to go, but i'm having some mobo issues atm.

Temperature wise (on water always), now this dual core @ 4.2Ghz runs about 48oC at that speed and volts full load, when i was using a 640 at same speeds and 1.55vcore full load temps would go up to 50oC (again at same ambient temp ~27oC), so yes it does run cooler than its predecessor specially when power is doubled .

Also ddr2 has deffo more bandwidth than an AMD setup and u can run 2gb's keeping high speeds too.

My opinion is best would be to wait for Merom that looks to be x5 faster than current preslers (at least that's what i saw on Intels graph ) or if you're in a hurry a 920D should do more than fine specially with 4MbL2 which i tell you i did felt the difference of that in windows.
You could follow the AMD route though... whatever suits you and your pocket