What is "Fast"?

Flukester said:
Funny thing is, my daily drive is a rocketship, yet my missus korean 1.0 trolley actually feels quite nippy (though lacks overtaking pull I admit)
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Refinement can make fast cars feel not so fast, and conversely a relatively noisy, unrefined car will tend to feel faster than it really is. My dads 1275 MG Midget feels fast, but that's only because of the extremely twitchy handling that makes you feel like you are going to fall off the road past 60mph :D
 
I'll tell you what's not fast... how long it took me to close this thread! (I'll leave it open for a bit longer but I doubt it's going to last...)
 
MikeHiow said:
No, my friend failed to pass me until around 90MPH in his M3 on a run from around 40-90.
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That sentence pretty much sums up why this is just about the dullest story ever.

Under a specific set of circumstances, for no discernible reason, your friend didn't rag it past you, even though he blatantly could have done, given what we know about the relative abilities of the two cars in question.

Hell, my vanilla Focus could keep pace with an racing grade M5 if the other driver wasn't pushing it hard, or was trying to accelerate in 7th gear while I was in 3rd.

Shame this is getting locked... was just plotting a couple of runs round the Nurburgring on Forza 3 to see how the two cars compare. I've still got a nice M3 from when we tried to have our championship in Console Games...
 
vonhelmet said:
That sentence pretty much sums up why this is just about the dullest story ever.

Under a specific set of circumstances, for no discernible reason, your friend didn't rag it past you, even though he blatantly could have done, given what we know about the relative abilities of the two cars in question.

Hell, my vanilla Focus could keep pace with an racing grade M5 if the other driver wasn't pushing it hard, or was trying to accelerate in 7th gear while I was in 3rd.

Shame this is getting locked... was just plotting a couple of runs round the Nurburgring on Forza 3 to see how the two cars compare. I've still got a nice M3 from when we tried to have our championship in Console Games...
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You're missing the point entirely, he was trying. You would have a point on the story being dull if I made a new thread saying "I OWNED AN M3", but I didn't, I just used an experience to quantify what I thought was fast up to a certain speed. You know, what this thread is supposed to be about?

peterattheboro said:
I recently went on a run with a Caterham R500 and kept up with it in my measley ST220.

I still wouldn't class it in anywhere near the same league though!
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Where have I said my car is in the same league as an M3?

Seriously guys, if you're going to argue this at least read what you're arguing against.
 
peterattheboro said:
I recently went on a run with a Caterham R500 and kept up with it in my measley ST220.

I still wouldn't class it in anywhere near the same league though!
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Case in point, the main difference there been is you car is a better road car, so you can push it hard with confidence.

Your friend in the R500 was probably just cruising as I'd imagine on road things can get a bit hairy with suspension that firm, or should I say lack of suspension. :D

This is it, yes what happened with Mike might have happened, but if both drivers equal, both engaging full throttle through gears at same time, the M3 will be ahead by 60mph and by 100mph will be a good 5 car lengths plus ahead.

For whatever reason in Mikes story the guy only manage to edge by at 90mph which could be due to car not at full potential, Mike getting the leap on him or him maybe missing a gear or the driver just not been very good or confident enough to go full throttle in a RWD car.

So yes it might happen, but lets get away from the crap that a Focus ST is practically as fast as an M3, it simply is not the M3 can corner better, can stop better and can accelerate faster, so in all to extract that from an M3 it takes more talent than it would in an ST. Thats the old RWD vs FWD easier to drive argument.
 
Gibbo said:
So yes it might happen, but lets get away from the crap that a Focus ST is practically as fast as an M3, it simply is not the M3 can corner better, can stop better and can accelerate faster, so in all to extract that from an M3 it takes more talent than it would in an ST. That the old RWD vs FWD easier to drive argument.
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Don't mistake me, I'm not saying that the Focus is practically as fast as an M3 in real terms. Again, I was just quantifying what I thought was sufficiently fast with an experience on the road.

Much the same as times I've followed him on good runs, twisties n'all - I've managed to stay with him, but if we took it off the road and put both cars on the track, he would annihilate me in no uncertain terms.
 
Fast, For me, is acceleration.

Don't want to be a Vtec homo, but only the DC2 has really made me grin in terms of acceleration ( Appart from motorbikes ).
 
PeterNem said:
It's still relevant... I'd say there's a pretty strong correlation between cars that are pulling well in 6th at 150MPH and those that are pulling well in 4th at 100MPH!

One of the things I love about the M5 is how even in 6th if you put your foot to the floor at 60MPH it'll pull and pull pretty quickly into silly speeds. Of course if you really need it then there's 5th or 4th - but often times just leaving it in 6th is plenty.
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MikeHiow said:
Not sure I agree.

The ST pulls well to 100*, but after that it does start to tail off a little. Past 120 it isn't really that fast at all.

*I know it pulls well, because from a 40-50MPH rolling start, my friend in his E46 M3 failed to pass me until 90-100MPH. But as you'd expect, the M3 passed me like I was barely moving once we hit 90-100.
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Probably better to read from page 1-3, but I was simply demonstrating that my idea of relevant 'fast' doesn't necessarily mean something has to be fast over 100MPH. Ie. The M3 is something that is still fast over 100, but the Focus faired well before that. Hence, quantifying my opinion.
 
I am both fascinated by these weekly feeding frenzies. I find it best if, as a casual Motors reader, you let a likely thread such as this build up several pagesworth of posts, then skip to the last page, read some posts to detect if a feeding frenzy is in process, then go back to the start of the thread and take in how it all develops and how the piece of random information being argued over in post #350 whatever came about and evolved . The trick is spotting which thread titles may go this way in order to leave them long enough before sampling them to get the full Motors effect as god intended.
 
Bubo said:
I am both fascinated by these weekly feeding frenzies. I find it best if, as a casual Motors reader, you let a likely thread such as this build up several pagesworth of posts, then skip to the last page, read some posts to detect if a feeding frenzy is in process, then go back to the start of the thread and take in how it all develops and how the piece of random information being argued over in post #350 whatever came about and evolved . The trick is spotting which thread titles may go this way in order to leave them long enough before sampling them to get the full Motors effect as god intended.
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Couldn't agree more.

Motors gets the finest threads... just look at James007's £10k Clio and the gigantic "i10 love" thread. :D

(someone else can provide links if they want)
 
Gibbo said:
Case in point, the main difference there been is you car is a better road car, so you can push it hard with confidence.

Your friend in the R500 was probably just cruising as I'd imagine on road things can get a bit hairy with suspension that firm, or should I say lack of suspension. :D

This is it, yes what happened with Mike might have happened, but if both drivers equal, both engaging full throttle through gears at same time, the M3 will be ahead by 60mph and by 100mph will be a good 5 car lengths plus ahead.

For whatever reason in Mikes story the guy only manage to edge by at 90mph which could be due to car not at full potential, Mike getting the leap on him or him maybe missing a gear or the driver just not been very good or confident enough to go full throttle in a RWD car.

So yes it might happen, but lets get away from the crap that a Focus ST is practically as fast as an M3, it simply is not the M3 can corner better, can stop better and can accelerate faster, so in all to extract that from an M3 it takes more talent than it would in an ST. Thats the old RWD vs FWD easier to drive argument.
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No but yeah but no but he was really going for it as I could tell and I even kept up with him which means my car is awesome or i'm either an awesome driver ;)
 
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