What makes a driver great?

Merlin5

Merlin5

Merlin5

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These quotes below are true imo and got me thinking.

majnu said:
Jenson Is good but not great.
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Nismo said:
Jenson isn't as good as a Vettel, Alonso or Hamilton
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In a way, Jensen is actually better than 'good' since we know he won a WDC. Some might say to win a WDC it would take a great driver. But he only won once and that was after many years of being in the sport. So to me, he's not quite great, but he's very, very good. At the moment, Lewis is similar until he can win a second WDC. These drivers are absolutely amazing to us of course, but alongside the drivers I mention below, they seem to be in a slightly different league.

What is it that makes the difference between a Vettel, an Alonso, a Senna that not only win multiple championships, but also early on in their careers, and a Button or Hamilton? We must be talking minutia details here. Is it being more aggressive, is it taking more risks, is it better hand and foot to eye coordination, is it a better brain? Do the lesser drivers simply play it too safe? Is it just down to bad luck, cars breaking down, or something else? Are some drivers just born with greatness whilst others just aren't?

Discuss if you will :)
 
1) Speed
2) Luck

That is all.

You can be the fastest driver ever but if you don't get in the right car at the right time you don't win anything. Hamilton's been in the wrong team the last 3 years, so has Alonso. It's very hard to predict 1 or 2 years ahead what the right team is (who'd have though mercedes would be faster than mclaren this year?) so it's really just luck.
 
Consistently outperforming the accepted level of where the car should be.

Prime examples being Senna in the '84 Toleman and Alonso in last years Ferrari.
 
LOL Hamilton great? Never, but then I wouldnt say Button is either and Im a fan...

Dont think its that hard to qualify what great means, but everyones interpretation is gonna be different. Guess an easy quantification is winning more than one WDC, thinks thats generally the most acceptable one. Personally Id say its the ability to use whatever god-given skills you have as effectively and consistently as possible and making your own luck.

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
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ps3ud0 said:
LOL Hamilton great? Never...
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Don't be so arrogant to write him off when has a good 10/15 years of F1 ahead of him. He missed out in his Rookie year by 1 point. He is a world champion. It's quite possible he will be world champion again, maybe several more times.

ps3ud0 said:
Dont think its that hard to qualify what great means, but everyones interpretation is gonna be different
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Agreed. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts. Lewis will be judged on how great he was when his F1 career is over, not before !
 
Telescopi said:
1) Speed
2) Luck

That is all.

You can be the fastest driver ever but if you don't get in the right car at the right time you don't win anything. Hamilton's been in the wrong team the last 3 years, so has Alonso. It's very hard to predict 1 or 2 years ahead what the right team is (who'd have though mercedes would be faster than mclaren this year?) so it's really just luck.
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So this means Webber really does have a slower car than Vettel and it has nothing to do with Vettel being a better driver? I don't completely buy it. If Vettel swapped cars with Webber, I still think Vettel would beat him.
 
Merlin5 said:
So this means Webber really does have a slower car than Vettel and it has nothing to do with Vettel being a better driver? I don't completely buy it. If Vettel swapped cars with Webber, I still think Vettel would beat him.
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Vettel weighs less than Webber; more aerodynamic :)
 
Merlin5 said:
So this means Webber really does have a slower car than Vettel and it has nothing to do with Vettel being a better driver? I don't completely buy it. If Vettel swapped cars with Webber, I still think Vettel would beat him.
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Why did you ignore speed? Webber is slower than vettel, like button was slower than hamilton and massa slower than alonso.

Every dog has his day of course but they are just not as fast over a season in different conditions and on different types of track.
 
Telescopi said:
Why did you ignore speed? Webber is slower than vettel, like button was slower than hamilton and massa slower than alonso.

Every dog has his day of course but they are just not as fast over a season in different conditions and on different types of track.
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I didn't ignore speed. That's why I said I think Vettel would beat Webber in either redbull car, because I believe Vettel has that extra je ne sais quoi where he can pull all the stops out and somehow find the extra bit of grunt needed to win.

You seemed to be saying that it's all about the car. Maybe I misunderstood you?
 
Raw Talent
Raw Determination
Ruthlessness

probably fits most people if you don't count the finns

Great drivers win races , Great car's win WDC's
Not every great driver has necessarily had a great car to win a WDC
 
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Merlin5 said:
You seemed to be saying that it's all about the car. Maybe I misunderstood you?
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It's about both, you need the speed to be fastest race after race but it's not going to get you anywhere if there's another team who are faster and/or more reliable. Of course it's equally unusual for a car to be so fast, that a second string driver can win in it.

Button had some speed, but had a lot of luck one year to be in *the* team, and his team mate simply wasn't good enough. Fair play to him for seizing his chance with both hands though, just like Hill did when his main competition went to a struggling team.

If mclaren hadn't made so many mistakes, it's likely that hamilton would have won the wdc last year - they had a fast car, and hamilton was far and away the faster in it. But they made mistakes, had failures, and as such weren't the 'right' team come end of the season.

Who would have predicted mclaren weren't the right team after the opening race last season? Yet they clearly were not, otherwise hamilton would have been wdc.

Hence luck - you can try to engineer yourself into the right team but things don't always turn out like you expected. Case in point - Senna moved to williams because they had the best car, rule changes turned it into a dog before he got there though!
 
Being a ****, changes you from a good driver to a great driver. Win at all costs.
Alonso, Vettle & Hamilton exhibit this. As did Schumacher & Senna (as well as many other multi world champions).

As cars play a big part, you have to look at people who drag the car far higher than it should, ie wet races where it levels the cars a bit and destroying their team mate season after season and not by just one or two places.
 
I always thought every F1 driver was a **** :)

It just comes out more if you're racing for championships rather than 4th place.
 
Some are far worse than others, I wouldn't say button for example is an absolute ****, hence although good, he's not great and is unlikely to be great.

He's also massively let down, by his inability to drive fast, unless the set up is as he wants,
Where alonso, Hamilton, Vettle can drag a bad car/setup up the grid.
 
Button isn't so nice, when he's able to he's quite happy to **** with another driver to get what he wants.

Lets not forget, when he was on it in Canada a couple of years ago he rammed his team mate into the wall and alonso off the track.
 
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