What network streamer

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Hi all,

I have recently revived my old arcam 290 and 290P amps that I broke a few years ago. Apart from the famous dodgy input selector switch they still sound great, even through my very old Mission 702e floorstanders.
I know this type of gear is low end for some, but I like it and it isn't dead yet.

I'd like to get it hooked up to all my music services and PC. With that in mind what are peoples recommendations for streamers? I've seen the Arcam ST60 and the cambridge audio offerings - are there anymore that offer good value?
I also have a schitt audio dac to use.

Thanks
 
Budget wise then 800 is probably the maximum I’d want to go given the age of the my other stuff.

I don't know about new audio streamers and how they manage database but tbh I was not impressed with standard upnp/dnla service, it's slow and clunky, limited or no options to use.

Ideally want a good host service on Nas/pc that allows customisation.

My TV, avr, Kodi, phone etc can all connect to the standard dnla on the nas but it's not great.

I'd recommend you get home demo.
 
Hi all,

I have recently revived my old arcam 290 and 290P amps that I broke a few years ago. Apart from the famous dodgy input selector switch they still sound great, even through my very old Mission 702e floorstanders.
I know this type of gear is low end for some, but I like it and it isn't dead yet.

I'd like to get it hooked up to all my music services and PC. With that in mind what are peoples recommendations for streamers? I've seen the Arcam ST60 and the cambridge audio offerings - are there anymore that offer good value?
I also have a schitt audio dac to use.

Thanks

Thinking about the spectrum of people who stream, it ranges from those who mostly play content they've ripped to their own library devices - a PC or a NAS, and so @hornetstinger 's comments about slow and clunky library management are valid. At the other end of the range there are those for whom streaming means playing almost everything from online services. That could mean coping with the user interfaces of several different streaming services, or eventually gravitating to one or two where the compromises are acceptable. Quite a lot of us sit somewhere between these to points.

What unites most of us is the desire to have a single solution that does it all properly. If anything then, this marks the watershed between classic Hi-Fi thinking of boxes, and power supplies, and circuit design - all the physical stuff that made say the ARCAM Delta a better amp than a Denon PMA-250 of a similar vintage - and the new world thinking where product quality is heavily influenced by intangible stuff such as software design.

More specifically, it highlights the difference between the brands that have been used to doing everything in-house and the new ways of working where a company is smart enough to let go of the reins because they realise they're good at hardware but someone else is far better at the software thing. A good parallel example of this is smart TVs versus streaming sticks/boxes.

To put it bluntly, the software design and implementation of most smart TV streaming apps sucks. You can spend anything from under £500 to over £1,500 on a 55" TV and yet a £40 Fire TV stick runs rings around it for streaming because the software works better. It's quicker, easier to use and better supported all because the company behind it are software designers first and foremost. They're not hardware people trying to reinvent the wheel when it comes to software design. I think the same is largely true with streamers.

You have brands such as Naim, Linn, ARCAM, and Cambridge Audio who all cut their teeth in hardware design. They're now making streamers where software is arguably just as important as the hardware - maybe even more so - but because they're all used to doing everything in-house, they also try to do the software development in-house too. IMO this is their failing. I'm reminded of ARCAM's AV amps. The DVD-era stuff was really very good. Dealing with optical and coaxial input signals was well within the brand's capabilities. ARCAM's AVR did a lot of what you'd expect from a Denon or Pioneer, Onkyo or Yamaha,but with better audio quality. Then HDMI arrived and the wheels fell off the ARCAM wagon. It took them a long time to get to grips with the tech. The new AVRs were flaky and it seemed a couple of generations behind the mainstream brands. When the competition was processing audio via HDMI, ARCAM was just a HDMI switch. When they had ARC, ARCAM was a couple of years behind, and when they handled 4K, ARCAM was still in 1080p-land. I'm not trying to bash ARCAM. I have a lot of respect for the brand. But that doesn't change the fact that they screwed up the transition to HDMI because their software team wasn't up to scratch.

What's all this leading up to?

I'm going to recommend an inexpensive streamer for a couple of main reasons. It's a bit of a leftfield choice because it's not shackled to old-school Hi-Fi thinking. This isn't a big box because it doesn't need to be. But it still has superb audio performance by any Hi-Fi standard. It's the Escape M1 Air.

The second main reason for recommending it is because the designers were smart enough to incorporate Roon compatibility.

What's Roon?

If the goal is to bring together all of the various streaming platforms, and all of your own library content, and make that compatible across the widest possible range of devices, then Roon is the answer. Star Trek had the universal translator. Hitchhiker's Guide had the Babel fish. Streaming has Roon.

Yep, Roon is software, and it's kind of hard to break the mould of hardware dependency from old-school Hi-Fi habits. The idea of buying software takes something of a mental leap, particularly as you would expect any bit of hardware to come with the software to manage libraries and play lists and streaming sources etc. But buying into Roon liberates you from the poor software design inherent in most hardware.

There are a couple of decent primers here.
 
As you already have a good DAC, the streamer really needs to be able to provide an appropriate digital signal. The Squeezebox was a great low cost solution a decade ago. Unfortunately, they’re not available any more.

Short of going for a higher end solution like a Linn DS, my thoughts are a Raspberry Pi, running as a dedicated streamer, with the digital out to your DAC. Cheap, does the job, can run Roon (as a streamer, not a server) and has fairly low electrical noise.
 
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Thanks for all the suggestions guys, really appreciated. The Wiim looks compelling for the money and, as I've just started reading up on roon, that would be a bonus. I'll also take a look at the Pi option as i have a few of those knocking around doing nothing.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions guys, really appreciated. The Wiim looks compelling for the money and, as I've just started reading up on roon, that would be a bonus. I'll also take a look at the Pi option as i have a few of those knocking around doing nothing.

If you do go the Pi/Roon route, there's a specific build that you can write to an SDcard, allowing it to boot pretty much straight in.
 
One of the key things you need to consider is what are all "your music streaming services" as this may influence the best solution for what you want to achieve.

I'd recommend that you take a look at the Bluesound Node. The new gen3 model is £550.
I don't have one but they are popular and I believe well regarded (lots of reviews out there) with an excellent OS and client apps that supports pretty much every streaming service known to man is as well as enabling you to stream your own music collection (if you have one).

Regarding Roon.
I have a lifetime subscription to Roon and have used it for several years. For streaming your own local music library to your hifi and around the home, it is unsurpassed and highly recommended. But it's not cheap...
Roon seamlessly integrates your own music with that from Tidal or Qobuz services so if you search for "The Rolling Stones", it will show you all you own local RS albums plus all of those on the streaming services, all in one single view so you don't need to care if the albums are local or on a streaming service.

Probably the best part about it is that you can read detailed background info and review about the album and artist and click on links to discover other related and influential artists. This is a fantastic way to discover new music.
Similarly, I can listen to internet radio in Roon, think "oh I like this track", click the track metadata link (for stations that provide metadata) and this will take me to the album on Qobuz which I can then "add" to my library (the music files aren't actually downloaded).

However unless you already have a decent music collection of your own, Roon is not really worth the expense and it also doesn't connect with any other streaming services other than Tidal and Qobuz.

You could also get a Raspberry Pi with a HifiBerry SPDIF/Optical add on card (to connect to your DAC) and install Volumio, It will catalogue your existing music collection, provides a spotify client (for Premium users) and supports Airplay but access to Tidal requires a subscription to Volumio. I believe it also supports other services like bandcamp. This solution is more for people who like a bit of tinkering rather than a set and forget piece of hifi equipment.

HTH
 
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Out of interest, what’s the current gold standard for hifi devices used for online streaming?

I’ve used an Apple TV connected via optical to a DAC in the past and it seems to have decent results and Spotify software integrates well. Is there a good one box solution?
 
One of the key things you need to consider is what are all "your music streaming services" as this may influence the best solution for what you want to achieve.

I'd recommend that you take a look at the Bluesound Node. The new gen3 model is £550.
I don't have one but they are popular and I believe well regarded (lots of reviews out there) with an excellent OS and client apps that supports pretty much every streaming service known to man is as well as enabling you to stream your own music collection (if you have one).

Regarding Roon.
I have a lifetime subscription to Roon and have used it for several years. For streaming your own local music library to your hifi and around the home, it is unsurpassed and highly recommended. But it's not cheap...
Roon seamlessly integrates your own music with that from Tidal or Qobuz services so if you search for "The Rolling Stones", it will show you all you own local RS albums plus all of those on the streaming services, all in one single view so you don't need to care if the albums are local or on a streaming service.

Probably the best part about it is that you can read detailed background info and review about the album and artist and click on links to discover other related and influential artists. This is a fantastic way to discover new music.
Similarly, I can listen to internet radio in Roon, think "oh I like this track", click the track metadata link (for stations that provide metadata) and this will take me to the album on Qobuz which I can then "add" to my library (the music files aren't actually downloaded).

However unless you already have a decent music collection of your own, Roon is not really worth the expense and it also doesn't connect with any other streaming services other than Tidal and Qobuz.

You could also get a Raspberry Pi with a HifiBerry SPDIF/Optical add on card (to connect to your DAC) and install Volumio, It will catalogue your existing music collection, provides a spotify client (for Premium users) and supports Airplay but access to Tidal requires a subscription to Volumio. I believe it also supports other services like bandcamp. This solution is more for people who like a bit of tinkering rather than a set and forget piece of hifi equipment.

HTH
You raise an interesting point as currently, my main streaming service is Apple Music however, as I re-discover my HiFi I wouldn't mind collecting some lossless albums and storing on a NAS.
 
Out of interest, what’s the current gold standard for hifi devices used for online streaming?

I’ve used an Apple TV connected via optical to a DAC in the past and it seems to have decent results and Spotify software integrates well. Is there a good one box solution?

By one box, do you mean server, renderer and DAC in a single box?

If so, nope, I don’t know.

The hifi bods tend to talk about keeping digital noise (I assume they mean RFI) away from analogue circuits. So the real top end stuff seem to usually be at least two box with a server, and then a streamer/DAC in a separate box.

Which is the best streamer (without server)? Some of that is almost certainly going to be down to personal preference, but some options at nuts money include:
- DCS Rossini or Bartok
- Linn Klimax DS
- Meridian ultra DAC
Those would be the ones I’d shortlist to listen to if I’d won the lottery.
 
I'd recommend that you take a look at the Bluesound Node. The new gen3 model is £550.
I don't have one but they are popular and I believe well regarded (lots of reviews out there) with an excellent OS and client apps that supports pretty much every streaming service known to man is as well as enabling you to stream your own music collection (if you have one).
I love my Bluesound POWERNODE. I have no idea about half the features on it haha. Used Klarna to split the payments into 3 as well to help with the cost from Richer Sounds. Can't get over the power for such a small thing.
 
By one box, do you mean server, renderer and DAC in a single box?

If so, nope, I don’t know.

The hifi bods tend to talk about keeping digital noise (I assume they mean RFI) away from analogue circuits. So the real top end stuff seem to usually be at least two box with a server, and then a streamer/DAC in a separate box.

Which is the best streamer (without server)? Some of that is almost certainly going to be down to personal preference, but some options at nuts money include:
- DCS Rossini or Bartok
- Linn Klimax DS
- Meridian ultra DAC
Those would be the ones I’d shortlist to listen to if I’d won the lottery.

Oof! Those are some beautiful and expensive bits of kit! The streamers were what I was thinking of rather than with built in storage. I don’t think I’ve got the energy to rip all my CDs again.

Think I’ll be sticking with what I’ve got for now!!
 
as
Oof! Those are some beautiful and expensive bits of kit! The streamers were what I was thinking of rather than with built in storage. I don’t think I’ve got the energy to rip all my CDs again.

Think I’ll be sticking with what I’ve got for now!!

Like us all. My source would probably get pasted by any of them.
Still, if your ever get the chance to have a listen, do it, such that you’ll know what is possible.
 
Typical, I’ve started reading and now I’m thinking it’d be fun to have roon endpoints all over the house….
 
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