What would you class as creating a website?

Aruffell

Aruffell

Aruffell

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Chatham, Kent
Was having a discussion with someone earlier in regards to creation, design, development.

The subject of websites came up.

Take overclockers for instance, it uses actinic shopping cart i believe. The forums use vbulletin.

I have designed a few websites over my time from my own portfolio, a review site, a recruitment site for my old company, a mechanic site, a car part site, an owners club forum and so on.

All of the sites use wordpress and vbulletin, the reason being, i could spend time learning how to develop a nice looking site with functionality and an easy to use backend. Wordpress and vbulletin have this already so why not use that as a base.

When it comes to the sites ive developed. I've normally shown some examples of themes that are available and what it could look like and spoke to the people im making it for to see what they wanted.

Normally they have said they like one but with a few changes which is where (after i've installed the software and theme) i have used the basic knowledge i know of php to adjust things and move things around and just give it the slight custom feel that they've wanted.

The themes are obviously free or some are paid for, for your use to use how you wish.

Would you class this as design and development as you are still making something for them, the recruitment site for instance took me weeks, due to my mate and old boss lee being the pickiest person in the world and wanting is "just" right.

What's your opinions on this :)

Andy
 
Ziggy said:
Depends how customized it is.
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What about if nothing was customised?

I mean most people on here know how to build computers what if you don't? You'd get someone to build it or obviously buy one.

Some people wouldn't have a clue how to install wordpress, let alone how to set up web hosting, how to buy a domain, what mysql even is, let alone that wordpress uses it for a database. They wouldn't have a clue how to install a theme, or what a widget is or the different between a post or a page.

So wouldn't you see it more like offering a service like when we build computers for our friends who haven't got a clue?

Andy
 
Aruffell said:
When it comes to the sites ive developed. I've normally shown some examples of themes that are available and what it could look like and spoke to the people im making it for to see what they wanted....

...Would you class this as design and development as you are still making something for them
Click to expand...
So you mean all you're doing is taking free forum templates, modifying them (colours, logo etc.) and then calling that a site?

If that's what you mean, then you could probably get away with calling it "design" but I wouldn't go as far as calling that "development". Like you said, people out there who actually go and code the backend etc. are the developers. What I've just described there is just an interior room designer who hasn't built the house but merely decorated it.
 
Yeah, using your interior designer scenario, someone who guides you through what it could look like and then uses the tools that are available to them to make it happen.

That's basically what i have done with the sites i have created, but my mate thinks thats cheating and that i should have designed it all from scratch in notepad which i think is ridiculous, don't you agree?

I also see it as bit as development, as you are developing it into a site, you are getting the base, adding the theme, customizing it, making it "function" (key word) which i would class as you developing it into "something" that "functions" as the end user wants?

Andy
 
Again, someone else built the house. You've simply equipped, painted, furnished, and decorated it. Now that in itself is a lot of work, and I assume probably even good work - but at the end of the day you didn't build the house ;)
 
.one. said:
No it's cheating but if your getting away with it and making money who cares :D
Click to expand...

Cheating how? Not making money. Just done it for fun to build up skills and a portfolio really as i might go to uni next year in graphic design possibly. Would love to get into this kind of job when im able to work again though.

Andy
 
To be honest, I would tend to say that that doesn't class as design or development. I know a fair few web designers, and they're an incredibly talented bunch. Their skillset probably exceeds yours in places, where they'll actually be creating a WordPress theme and installing it, rather than just modifying someone else's. Some of them, of course, would just create a template image file and supply it to someone who could turn that into markup and CSS.

Also, graphic design is not web design. It sounds to me like you haven't done any actual design, rather just installed templates that other people have designed. In my opinion, great design isn't something you can really learn. Sure, you can learn the fundamentals of typography and how to use photoshop well, and what's current, but great designers just have that instinct.

When it comes to development, you're not even really scratching the surface. Relating to the interior design metaphor, you'd probably come closer to Lawrence Llewelyn Bowen - you know what pieces go where, but if you didn't have someone to supply the labour skills, you'd probably be a bit stuck.

I don't usually put WordPress sites in my portfolio, unless I've done quite a substantial amount of plugin writing, as it basically constitutes a bit of HTML and CSS otherwise. To be fair, though, I've not updated my portfolio in the last year. There's more value in how you talk about what you do, and the code you can show than there is in showing pictures of what you've done, imho.

I'm also not sure I would class development the same as you. Development is generally understood as writing or augmenting a codebase writing actual code, not just putting it together. I wouldn't say you're cheating if you're being upfront about what you do, but you're not a developer.
 
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As a general rule as a client i would rather someone use a proven existing app than creating the whole website (forums, shopping cart, etc) from scratch, as this will often have been much more widely tested, the company that developed it will be developing upgrades, fixes, etc something that a single guy will usually not have the time to do. Also if that guy "disappears", it is easier to find someone else, or find documentation on how to support the app in the future.

Bottom line: If the client can't do the work themselves and are willing to pay what you are charging to do it for them then that's all that matters.
 
For me, Notepadd++, MySQL, a webserver, photoshop and hundreds of hours = design and development, nothing else. But that's just me.
 
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