What would you do?: Traffic light sequence malfunction

Freefaller

Freefaller

Freefaller

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There's a 4-way junction near me where the traffic lights on one of the 4 roads malfunctions regularly. Well, when I say malfunction, it either does not detect vehicles waiting, or the controller has gone doolally.

The junction has 2 minor roads (from industrial estate / shopping centres) feeding into the main road.

I use this junction 3-4 times a week, and more often than not, the minor road on which I am waiting to join the main road, the traffic lights will not turn green. By the time the other lights change to green and red at least three times I often do just check the road is clear and go through the red light (I know I'm a criminal). However I have in the past waited behind cars at that junction where, without exaggeration, we have waited over 5 minutes without any change in lights. In that situation, I've turned around and gone an alternative way, unfortunately you then are fed into a one-way system which is a bit of a pain.

So my question is, do you feel that going through the red light in such a situation is fair? Or would you argue that you either wait, or do something else?

The reason I ask, is a friend who uses this junction got pulled over by the police (quite rightly) for going through the red light, explained the situation, but the police said that he should just wait. He said they will be fining him and giving him points. He has a dashcam so will be taking it to show the situation - he showed it to me, and you can clearly see the lights changing 4 times for the other 3 sets of traffic lights, and the dashcam time shows nearly 6 minutes before he took the initiative.

I know in a black and white world what he did was wrong, but I think it is a little unfair. When he pulled out of the junction there were no cars, and the police only happened to be coming round the corner so it was just bad timing.

I personally don't think he should get points or a fine for it.
 
I'm pretty sure there's something in law that if the lights are malfunctioning then you may proceed with caution even if they are red, I suppose unfortunately this is open to interpretation of exactly what classes as a malfunction but I'd do the same as you if I've been sat there for a couple of rounds of the other lights then I'd go when safe red light or not.

There's a set of lights coming off the M6 near me that we used to use at silly oclock in the morning after finishing security work in Birmingham and they'd do exactly the same you could literally be waiting all night for another car to pull up behind you before it would actually pick it up. There was no time for playing those games after a long shift.
 
I think you're right about the highway code, which is why I'm surprised the police pulled him over. The thing is the light works from time to time but surely if he's got the evidence it should be okay? What if he didn't have the evidence though?
 
Then you've got to look at it from their point of view, if he couldn't play them the dashcam footage there and then which is likely then all they've seen is him jump a red light for no reason.

If he appeals I can't see a judge holding it up with evidence to show that they were not changing.

Without the evidence though he'd probably be up crap creek without a paddle.
 
There's a 4-way junction near my work with two minor roads leading onto a main road, and it occasionally happens. The main road isn't THAT busy so people just tend to go.

The inductive loops in the road that detect vehicles are probably just a bit knackered.
 
arfoll said:
Stupid situation, if it shows 6 minutes of waiting I'm surprised cops didn't apoligise and say they'll be reporting the lights! I was in a traffic jam in a small village because of a red light that wouldn't go green, cars where coming to the red light then waiting however long before deciding they where gonna go anyways, really stupid stuff!
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The police didn't see him wait for ages, they just turned round the corner as he went through the junction. I don't know why he didn't suggest showing the dashcam, not sure what model he has though. Stupid situation as you say.
 
tom_e said:
If he appeals I can't see a judge holding it up with evidence to show that they were not changing.

Without the evidence though he'd probably be up crap creek without a paddle.
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Agreed. However it's a shame people are having to prove their innocence now to such an extent. :(

I could understand if his manoeuvre was dangerous, but there was no one coming.

I'm guessing they must be rookie cops or not traffic cops so probably were erring on the side of enforcement. He doesn't hold anything against them, it's just a bit tedious.

Whilst I have a dashcam in my car, I haven't got one in my wife's car so should anything like this happen to me, I'd be stuffed.
 
Could he write to the local constabulary or reply to whatever fine/NIP he gets stating he has footage proving the lights were broken and that he had been there 6 minutes? He could offer to provide it before it goes any further so they can decide whether to take it to court or not.
 
No idea. He's heading to the station this evening. I was just curious if any of you had also come across this sort of situation and whether or not you'd go through the lights, seems that it has and does happen. By the sounds of things I reckon this should be cleared up after a chat. Just seems to be a bit of a waste of time.
 
Rule 176: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203

Rule 176
You MUST NOT move forward over the white line when the red light is showing. Only go forward when the traffic lights are green if there is room for you to clear the junction safely or you are taking up a position to turn right. If the traffic lights are not working, treat the situation as you would an unmarked junction and proceed with great care.
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Fair enough for them to pull him over I guess, they don't know it's faulty, so just acting on what they saw. Hopefully they are fair and will accept it's broken and drop charges when they see the video.
 
There's a crossroads near Greenford which used to regularly fail with the lights stuck on red, one time I was there for maybe 10+ minutes as the cars in front didn't really know what to do but I've seen a police car go through when the lights were stuck on red on one occasion. Proves nothing really apart from the fact that your friend was unlucky but hopefully lucky with having a dashcam.
 
I've had this on a set of traffic lights near me: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4...4!1s0Z4jvIMMDnZXp5sHUZKyvA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Pulled out of the petrol station into the position of the blue Astra, intending to turn right onto the B2108. Perhaps because I had just pulled out of the station, the lights didn't seem to recognise that I was sat there. After watching the lights for the other junctions go through their sequence several times, I just waited until the road was clear and went through the red.

If it's quite obvious that the sequence is not detecting your presence then I say just proceed with caution.
 
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