Whats best way to migrate a business to Linux

[PhilGQ]

Here is my problem.

My company is running a flaky old Windows Server 2003 setup which has a single core CPU and three 150GB disks its run out more than once and caused us to have to delete stuff. It is currently only used for exchange and a file server.

The problems start when I look into any IT project at work I am severly limited in what I can do. I want a back office system a Voip solution, an Intranet and space to store tons of scanning. We need to buy a new server but we have been quoted £5k+vat which is too much at the moment. Most of that is the Server 2008 licence and the cals. We have been getting buy using external storge devices etc but it can't go on I have to do something.

I want to consider an open-source aproach since it will be cheeper and less demanding on the hardware requirements
However I am not an IT guy, the chap that looks after the server and the folks at the maintance company are all Windows People so its going to be an up hill battle. I have been using Linux for about 7-8 years myself but not delved into the server side and rarly touch the command line.

Can anyone offer any advice as to the best direction for me to go, what the typical problems are with this sort of migration, compatability and that kind of thing. If you can suggest a particular solution RHEL, SLED/SLES, Xandros, MDK or what ever that would be usefull.

My main consideration is cost but it must be easy for us to administer as we have limited skills in the company when it come to IT.

Any help is apprecited

Phil

 

[PhilGQ]

Thanks for the info,

With regards to choosing a server distro, I am feel that we should use a GUI based system due to or inexperience on the comand line. How do CentOS and Ubuntu do on that score, I found clear ClearOS earlier today (used to be Clarkconnect) which is all graphical as far as I can see.

I have had a look at SugarCRMs web site a few times before, is it easily customisable? The web site focuses on Sales ledgers and that kind of thing, I am in financial services so its not a product in product out kind of business. Its more letters and document and managing customer data. If I find a VM of sugar CRM will I be able to get an idea of its functionality or does it need lots of configuration to make it workable etc.

I would love to drop windows on the client side as well, but it maybe to big a pill to swallow just now, I am thinking of maybe making linux an optional desktop and then pulling Windows later.

Do you do this sort of thing for a living, if so is their anything you can do for us, I see you are in Southampton, we are in Wolverhampton so not ideal I know.

 

[PhilGQ]

I don't know about Ubuntu, I have been using the desktop version for years, (the current one won't load on my system). The server version is entirely command line based so I am not sure its right. I have MINT DEBIAN EDITION installed at the moment that might be an option.

Is virtualisation a good way to go for things like SugarCRM and Asterisk, using off the shelf appliances.

 

[PhilGQ]

Hi randal

Do you think I could get away with an old dualcore desktop system as a server to run VMware on and all its appliances (extra RAM I am thinking)

 

[PhilGQ]

what makes you think the server is command line? It may default to command line, but just install your choice of window manager (gnome for example) and it's up and running...

sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop gives you almost the same as you would get "normally"

I am aware you can just add a desktop, but then do all the tools have nice GUIs or do you have to open a shell, in which case your no better off, most tutorials I see use the comand line so I know me or my collegues will come unstuck (or just refuse to use it).

If I could use ubuntu that would be ace.

 

[PhilGQ]

I've helped a couple of friends setup their SOHO and SME's with some Open Source tools and I think a lot of the teething issues were around productivity applications.

If I were doing it again, I think I'd make sure that end users can get comfortable with Open Office and Thunderbird (or whatever) before migrating them.

Perhaps you could set a machine up with these apps and ask someone to try it out for a week or two? Ultimately most users in a SME environment dont care (or in many cases know) what OS they are running on, as long as their 'Word' files open and they can interact with the web effectively.

Most SMEs I know are only interested in email, internet and office docs, and an accounting app (you can just keep a Windows desktop for this if you must). You can hide the storage, backup and printing on whatever OS you feel comfortable with.

The desktops are lower priority for me, we currently have a mix of XP,Vista and 7 depending on when the machine was bought. I think if I were to swap thees out I would install OO.o (Libre Office) for Windows for a while then swap out the desktop leter. The jump would only be slightly bigger than from going from XP to 7 if they where already using the office suite.

 

[PhilGQ]

STOP DO NOT DO IT.... you are headed for a disaster....

upgrade the existing disks (assuming the server is not slow), depending on the config it might be a 10 min job...

The servers old, I am not sure if it SCSI or IDE but there is no sata channels on it. Also for our business its something of a cross roads, if we stick with Windows now we will be stuck with it for then next ten years along with all the expensive cals and dumbed down applications.

I would personally like to make the jump too, I don't mind us paying for a bit of support either to Red Hat or Novell or whoever if the costs will be lower as the company grows.

 

[PhilGQ]

For testing, or production?

I think that you'd struggle to run a production VMWare environment on a dual core desktop with CRM, F+P etc.. in a real life environment. How many users are we talking, and how utilised is the current setup?

What budget do you think you've got for hardware to make this work? I'd definitely be looking at a server class machine, or something with more than your average SATA 2 desktop disk throughput if you're running multiple VMs.

I thought you might say that, I reckon we could afford to sink £1000 on it, We could probably get away with just a couple of Terabytes to be going on with and add more later, most of it will be document storage

So role wise am I right in thinking you want a solution that'll run:

- Exchange
- F+P
- CRM
- Web (intranet)
- anything else?

That looks like a good setup, we might want to drop exchange entirely since we would still need to buy more cals as we add more users, which is likely to happen in the next two years someone on another forum has suggested Zimbra (which I use for my perosnal email). But we can think about this later.

Do you know of any document managment solutions for linux?

 

[PhilGQ]

@ Randal

We don't have a rack, the current server is a pedastal, My god its noisey, lucky its in sound proof room.

We currently have 11 staff, but that is likely to at least double in the next year possibly quadrupel. The document managment system is to store scan old paper files into so the the files can be shreded, for the most part they files won't be accessed but we need to be able to get them quickly and easily if the regulator asks. It will also store documents for live clients that we will need to access all the time.

@ fluff & edscdk

I understand what you guys are saying, I am looking at all the posibilities. While our current IT support contractor is a Windows Outfit we don't have to stick with them long term, I am happy to look at supported SLES/VMware environments and such like.

Since we are growing the business now is the time to ask these questions, if I take the Windows route now we will be spending the money now only to spend even more money later as we need more users. I don't mind testing this stuff with free(as in beer) products but then rolling out equivelent supported versions when it come to actual depolyment.

 

[PhilGQ]

I'm tempted to offer my services to support it remotely, but I'm certain that's against several forum rules.

I can't see anythink in the rules to stop you offering your services, OCs don't sell Linux support as far as I am aware so you would not be treading on their toes.

I am pretty sure they don't like you advertising in your sig. How is it you do the whole trust thingy so I can you my email address without it showing in the thread.

 

[PhilGQ]

Or change the "Support Company" to someone who is Linux based and should be able to migrate the system lock stock and barrel and maintain it for you?

It's just a thought

Its a good thought, we may go that route but I think I'll test the water with some freebies to start out.

 

[PhilGQ]

Google apps in a non starter we can't use something like that for financial services, its asking for trouble.

I have thought of hosting the exchange, and getting a NAS which would be drop in replacment for what we have. It would also make sense for the low number of users.

However we are planning on growing the business and adding CRM functionality on site, this project has to solve a current problem and be expandable for our future requirements.

If I have to hire a Linux Sysadmin futhure down the line then I will, I am just not in a position to do it now. The main reason I am thinking of virtualisation is I can test of the shelf VMs for VOIP and CRM etc, the final solution will depend on the sucess of the tests.

 

[PhilGQ]

I think the only way to be certain is to do a proof of concept on a machine and see if you can get it to do what you want, and by that I also mean you can get a feel for it's supportability. Nothing ventured.

Agreed, it can't hurt to try it and it will be an experince, I probably try to cobble together a usable box to fiddle with at home so I don't reck my home system. Probably that dual core I mentioned earlier just to see what I can achieve. I don't have to go the whole hog and do everything together either.

I may ask for your help, but don't want to waste your time if its not going to come off.

 

[PhilGQ]

Fair point about google apps and the business you are in.

You could host your CRM app (providing it is web based) with a managed VPS, it will cost you around 30 quid per month and would be fully managed, backed up etc. Use SSL and some IP rules to secure it down.

Performance is the problem with hosted solutions, fine for emial but uploading and download files is to slow. We have a hosted backoffice and its annoying, want to get away from that if its possible.

Why do you need VOIP?

If you are struggling to justify the costs for licensingm virtualizing with VOIP etc seriously isn't for you. To virtaulize properly you need to spend a good bit of cash (centalized storage, support agreements, minimum two servers etc). I'm not saying this isn't something that could happen in the future though with growth. If you want to test some VOIP stuff, throw virtualbox or VMWare player on your PC and test it a little from there.

I was thinking VOIP would be the best way to go to replaced our telephones, Ideally running headsets from the PCs instead of desk phones an such like, having a decent directory and tying it to the CRM package. I was thinking of virtualization mainly from an easy of testing premade VMs and rolling them back when I break them. The final solution could just as well run on a physical machine.

Good luck.

EDIT: Just to add. How is your business going to grow? Do you think you will have external sales teams and offices in the future? Or are you always going to be one head office?

mostly at head office, sales force will be remote but will not need to mess about with large documents.

 

[PhilGQ]

hi deano

Thanks for input, I know of at least one Novell Partner based within 20 miles of us so I might speak to them if my tests seem positive. They do Red hat too if the recent Novell/Suse aquisition doesn't seem positive.

Problem with google is: Where is the server if its outsie the European Economic Area, then you breach the Data protection act once you store any customer data on it.

 

[PhilGQ]

I have not made a lot of progress if I am honest, some of my colleagues have been talking about going off site with Exchange. Another colleague has been in touch with our IT company about moving the off site back up to them. I took the opportunity to speak to them about hosting an intranet for us.

They pretty much told us that our broadband is to slow for all the stuff we want to ram down it. I asked him about running Linux to reduce the cost of the server he was peddling. He said they could do it for us which is good news. He has suggested that we reuse our 2003 license instead though and buy the server on the never never since it will be cheaper than a subscription to all of the off site services.

Other than that I found a couple of open source document management programs that I intend to test once I get a chance. Alfresco and Openkm both run on Linux or Windows so I can do a phased introduction of Linux.