Whats going on with my loop ?

Jamin280672

Jamin280672

Jamin280672

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So im running a Mo-Ra IV 200 with a D5 pump, I also have a DDC 4.2 inside the case running to help things along, so ive posted a picture below of the setup to make it easier to understand, the part I dont get is when I first switch the system on im getting about 4.0 litre / min, and slowly it slows down to around 2.3 litres / min..........whats going on with that, especially with 2 pumps running, the only restrictive things I have in my system is 1 x 90 degree, 1 x 45 degree and my 2 QD3's, unfortunately theres nothing I can do to change this, ive re-routed the pipes and flow meter 10 times over the last couple of days, nothing makes it better, some even made it beyond stupid worse where im only getting 0.80 litres / min, any help greatly appreciated.

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I assume your pumps are effectively connected in series? If so you wont increase flow rate but rather pressure.

If you want to increase flow rate then you need to connect the pumps in parallel.

Are the pumps on a fixed speed or controlled by something else?

Is the flow rate causing issues? Even at 2.3l/min you are well over 120l/hour so much more is not going to improve temps much really.

What are your temps doing? If your temps are fine I wouldnt worry about it.
 
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Thanks for the reply, both pumps are at full speed, they are silent so it doesn't bother me running them at full speed, the one in the PC is a DDC 4.2 and runs of molex, it just has an RPM cable to monitor speed only not adjustable, and the one on the Mo-Ra is an XSPC D5 vario, obviously the same, just has an rpm cable to monitor speed, not adjustable except for the red dial on the back of it.

Without the DDC switched on, I'm getting about 1.2 L/min, the DDC makes up for the difference taking it up to around 2.3, but often starts around 4 and slowly drops to 2.3 L/min

The way the flow runs is from the pump res combo with the DDC in the PC, to the ram water block, then out to the MoRa to be cooled, pushed back into the PC with the D5 and through the CPU block then back to the pump Res with the DDC in the PC, sorry if I sound dumb, but I'm not sure if this is series or parallel.
 
Id be tempted to see what the flow rate is without the DDC in the loop. Although it shouldn't create any notable additional restriction I would expect the D5 to provide more flow on its own.
 
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Does the flowmeter immediately settle on a stable constant flow reading when you've tried running with either of the pumps switched off, or does it also tend to give a higher reading then drop to a stable reading after a while? Trying to eliminate this just being some averaging going on in the flowmeter.
 
Turns out the issue is my CPU water block, it's a thermal grizzly direct die AM5 Pro, and for some reason it's blocked, well that didn't last very long at all, maybe 6 months at the most, very strange as apart from the mayhems clear UV blue with a couple of drops of mayhems blue dye in it that I'm trying to run through it now, the only other coolant it's had in it is xspc yellow which I flushed out using distilled water, anyway I've had to order another one (not cheap) as they can't be taken apart to clean them out.

PRocess of elimination, I tried without the ram block and experienced the same issues, tried without the front pump and res, same issues, and then tried without the CPU block attached, the coolant shot through at high speeds without the CPU block connected,
 
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Jamin280672 said:
couple of drops of mayhems blue dye
Click to expand...
there's your issue potentially - i have found before that adding mayhems concentrate to an already premixed solution to perk the colour back up almost always leads to blockages - had to stop using the stuff ages ago for that very reason.
 
Jamin280672 said:
Yup, non of them in that series can be disassembled, if it blocks up then it's a simple case of throw it away and buy a new one, maybe when I can afford it I'll buy the Optimus signature instead https://www.overclockers.co.uk/opti...r-block-niickel-cold-plate-coo-opt-01859.html

TG micro direct die: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/ther...gb-cpu-water-block-amd-am5-coo-tgz-03230.html
Click to expand...
That's disappointing from thermal grizzly tbh
Tried contacting them?
Or derbuaer? (however you spell that)

Other than that
Try blasting a garden hose through it
Or use a leak tester on it (outdoors just in case)
Fill it with water
Pump up the leak tester then unscrew the leak tester
As fast as you can
It basically vacuums the liquid out
Repeat that as many times as you can bear to do
It may suck out blockages

Nuclear option
They put it together somehow
It must come apart somehow
Use whatever tools you have to try to
Reverse engineer however they assembled it
 
Looks like it's acetal with an interference fit into the metal coldplate on that block from the pictures. If you're going to write the block off anyway then maybe you could try getting a shim or something between the coldplate and the intermediate plastic and wedge them apart. That would probably do it.

I'd definitely get in touch with TG support first though and see if they can help you out.
 
Incomming pictures with explanations lol.

So last night whilst doing some investigations, I found this review about this water block and how it changed and improved from the original block:
Looking at the image of the cold plate, I thought well there isnt 8 screw holes, theres only 4, however this block has a black protective surface on the bottom of it to protect the motherboard from the metal sides sitting against the motherboard, so with a scalpel I peeled away the black surface to reveal 4 tiny little screws, undoing these the block fell apart, and low and behold, its was blocked, good and proper, so I threw the cold plate into a pool of IPA for an hour and then gave it a scrub with a toothbrush, kind of back to new and unblocked now, so the only query I have now is how to get around if its going to be safe to use without the black protective tape on the bottom ?

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If you were worried about it you could either use Kapton Tape, insulating tape or something like Plastidip Paint that you could peel off and re-apply after you subsequently split the block for future cleaning. Or see if there's anything metallic under where it sits on the CPU and just not bother if there's nothing there
 
haaammit said:
If you were worried about it you could either use Kapton Tape, insulating tape or something like Plastidip Paint that you could peel off and re-apply after you subsequently split the block for future cleaning. Or see if there's anything metallic under where it sits on the CPU and just not bother if there's nothing there
Click to expand...

Thanks, never heard of plastdip, I may have a look at that.

I messaged TG customer support just after posting this here this morning, they've replied asking for pictures of the bottom of the block where I removed the protective tape and my invoice, sounds kind of promising, they have also said don't use the block without it on, they advise you just flush to clean it out, but as I said, I tried that and it didn't work, dismantle was the only way to clean it, bit of a catch 22 really, maybe they should reconsider the design and put the screws through the top instead with some plastic or rubber bungs to hide the screws if they don't want them on show.
 
Yeah knew they put it together
So it comes apart
Just didn't know how easy or difficult it would be
Or if any serious damage would occur

As well as items already mentioned
You can get (bit tricky to find last time I got some)
Paint on electrical tape
I used to use it on pump wires etc
Where they hadn't sleeved the wires to paint them black
Probably available on amazon nowadays

Or some instant gasket
Sort of stuff used on car engine heads
Used that before to fix cracked watercooling blocks
Both are basically very fast setting rubber solutions

Though fingers crossed
Thermal grizzly will sort you out
 
I'm will to bet the underside won't be touching anything on the motherboard, because if it did it would stop you getting good contact between the cpu and the cold plate. Just a bit of tricians tape here and there would be enough to be absolutely certain.
 
So I ordered another block, if by some chance TG send me a new one i'll just sell it on, but.........PMSL, ive posted a picture of the new block vs my old block, and the stock picture, I guess they realized there mistake at some point and changed the sticker on the bottom of the block, I only said in an earlier post they needed to redesign it to make it serviceable.

EDIT: Oh and the culprit was this complete and utter rubbish: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/cors...wcB&gbraid=0AAAAADv6Y8WHd0O8xAmIE9RI_82si8ZOC
I was really after some 13/10 EDPM tubing, but everywhere seems to be out of stock of it, so I brought this instead, what I thought would be the closest match, OMG what a waste of money, kinks galore, way too soft, and when you cut it, the material surrounding the tubing frays and flys everywhere, I guess a little fray snuck its way into the CPU water block, once wet from the coolant and flow pressure, it screwed itself up in the main centre channel of the cold plate and wouldnt move, I couldnt see it through the inlet or outlet ports, even putting a highish pressure blower on the inlet and outlet didnt budge it, the only way I discovered it was through dismantling the block.

Stock picture (how mine was):
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Bottom of new block vs my old block:
1WHpHFH.jpeg
 
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Never used that corsair tubing
Will remember not to

If you're struggling to find 13/10 epdm
I suggest you try a local car factors
Both epdm and silicon tubing are used in cars
I have done it before when I wanted tubing the same day
And even next day delivery was too long to wait
Stuff used in cars is usually high temperature rated
And some are also reinforced
Basically well above the required specs for pc watercooling
 
Im using zmt tubing in my build and never had problems (no fluid change in 3years). Check watercolling or alphacool for their rubber tubing
 
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