What's the point of a NUC when I can build a SFF instead?

kaktus · 19 Jun 2015 at 15:29

I've been really trying hard to justify the point of spending ~ £600 for a i5 nuc instead of just building a small pc with better cooling and a dedicated gpu instead for the same price.

The plan is only to use it for browsing, netflix/amazon, xbmc media streaming from a NAS. I just can't see the point of buying a NUC to do this, as I can probably build something much better and will last much longer than a NUC, might even be enough for casual gaming too when the nephews come round.

So am i missing something? whats the point of the NUC???

james.miller · 19 Jun 2015 at 15:57

the point is you dont have to build it.
but anyway, you're probably looking at the wrong NUC if all you want it for is to browse and play some media - you dont need a £600 i5 NUC for that.

kaktus · 19 Jun 2015 at 16:23

james.miller said:
the point is you dont have to build it.
but anyway, you're probably looking at the wrong NUC if all you want it for is to browse and play some media - you dont need a £600 i5 NUC for that.

well I'm pretty confused about this you could say.

I assumed the logical setup is :

1 NAS with a bunch of storage drives is a sort of 'well of storage' and just basically contains raw stored files (movies, music whatever)

1 powerful HTPC 'pulls' files off the NAS, like you would pull files from a USB attached to a router say, and the htpc then processes, and disseminates those media files for consumption.

Right now, its looking more like there's no need for an HTPC at all and just getting a very powerful NAS to store and distribute content. OR get a very powerful HTPC to distribute content and a bunch of USB drives attached to it to store the content.

I don't see the point of both together

Bluecube · 19 Jun 2015 at 17:11

Why do you need a powerful HTPC? Even the Celeron based NUCs will handle everything on your wish list save for the gaming. A NAS is only useful if you have more than one PC to share files to otherwise a USB drive and NUC will do just fine for you.

kaktus · 19 Jun 2015 at 17:52

Bluecube said:
Why do you need a powerful HTPC? Even the Celeron based NUCs will handle everything on your wish list save for the gaming. A NAS is only useful if you have more than one PC to share files to otherwise a USB drive and NUC will do just fine for you.

There's a lot of conflicting information out there. From what I understand you need a cpu with at least 2000 cpumark to run an effective server capable of transcoding.

I believe the reason for a NAS is act as a central repository for not only the NUC but also the other pc's in the house and the TV's/media players which would use NAS to access stored content.

I'm terribly confused about the whole set up, for me it seems like a nas only makes sense if you want to access your content outside your home (i.e. Through a Web interface, and which case you need a powerful NAS to transcode). Otherwise, a powerful htpc and a dumb file server NAS is the way to go for home setups. Do you agree.with that?

Bluecube · 19 Jun 2015 at 18:13

I'm with you now. What I have is a powerful server with a few drives in it which I use for media storage. As its quite powerful it easily handles any transcoding duties if needed. I run Plex Server on it which greatly eases the distribution of media through the house and also over the net.
In my lounge I have a small PC which, when turned on, runs Plex Home Theater which provides an easy to use interface through which to access the media on the server. Hopefully this wee description of what I have may help you.

I think you've got it the wrong way round - you need a powerful server, not a powerful HTPC. It's the server that handles all the hard graft whilst your small, low power HTPC/ phone/ tablet/ smart TV happily skips along playing the transcoded media from the server.

kaktus · 23 Jun 2015 at 14:24

Bluecube said:
I'm with you now. What I have is a powerful server with a few drives in it which I use for media storage. As its quite powerful it easily handles any transcoding duties if needed. I run Plex Server on it which greatly eases the distribution of media through the house and also over the net.
In my lounge I have a small PC which, when turned on, runs Plex Home Theater which provides an easy to use interface through which to access the media on the server. Hopefully this wee description of what I have may help you.

I think you've got it the wrong way round - you need a powerful server, not a powerful HTPC. It's the server that handles all the hard graft whilst your small, low power HTPC/ phone/ tablet/ smart TV happily skips along playing the transcoded media from the server.

I'm not sure this really answered my question or maybe it did...

Let me put it another way:

2-4 TV's and potentially 2-4 devices 'pulling' media, which could be movies, songs, pictures or otherwise, from a central storage device.

Are you saying that it makes more sense to have a very powerful central storage device (NAS) that also does the processing of the file, be it movies or otherwise, before streaming it to a receiving device like a low powered htpc, mobile phone or whatever?

Put it this way, what would be the disadvantage of having:
*a non-powerful NAS for the sole purpose of being a dumb file storage device with say 3 or 4 large HDD's attached to it
* a powerful htpc to use as a home theatre and pc system in one including browsing, downloading, playing movies and other content and reading all the information from the HDD's attached to the NAS?

I'm trying to understand why the NAS has to be the server here and not the HTPC?

cactusweasel · 23 Jun 2015 at 14:48

a NUC is just a new platform size, designed and made by Intel, much like ATX, miniITX etc

kaktus · 23 Jun 2015 at 15:50

cactusweasel said:
a NUC is just a new platform size, designed and made by Intel, much like ATX, miniITX etc

how did this add anything whatsoever to the discussion? No-one asked what a NUC is. The original question was what the point of it was and how it relates to the application its intended for...

Caged · 23 Jun 2015 at 20:20

It's smaller than something you could build yourself, most of the components are already part of the one order with the exception of RAM and storage, and it has IR built into the front.

I use an i5 NUC as my main PC, with 8GB RAM and a 256GB SSD, Windows 8.1 Pro and an Intel Wireless-AC card. It's attached by the included VESA bracket to the underside of my desk so it takes up no space at all. I didn't have to do any thinking when I purchased it, and if it develops a fault at any point in the next 3 years then Intel sort it out.

You are paying extra for that convenience.

MichaelAwkward · 24 Jun 2015 at 10:34

kaktus said:
how did this add anything whatsoever to the discussion? No-one asked what a NUC is. The original question was what the point of it was and how it relates to the application its intended for...

Your original question was "whats the point of the NUC???". He answered your question. A NUC is an off the shelf SFF form factor designed by Intel (typically smaller than most self-built SFFs).

No need to be an ass.

tek2k · 24 Jun 2015 at 11:45

MichaelAwkward said:
Your original question was "whats the point of the NUC???". He answered your question. A NUC is an off the shelf SFF form factor designed by Intel (typically smaller than most self-built SFFs).

No need to be an ass.

What is the point of a knife? a knife is a cutting tool with a cutting edge or blade. Modern day knives are usually black handled with steel blades. Did that answer the question? No.

An appropriate answer would've been: A knife is a cutting tool with a cutting edge or blade which can be used to slice through other softer materials or objects. It makes for a much more efficient means by which to dice food for example into smaller pieces without having to use your fingers.

One is a description, the other is a definition of use.

Not trying to be an 'ass' either but if you're going to call someone up on it you should at least know what you're talking about

Now to answer OPs original question - a NUC is pretty pointless actually unless you're in the crowd that think a Mac Mini is a good idea too. It works for those looking for something small and out of the way and is pretty much a tiny PC.

However for the price, and if you have the space, I'd always build a small media PC instead as this can be easily upgraded, has better cooling and has better performance with things such as dedicated graphics cards. However, as someone else pointed out, you could have a very powerful NAS acting as a server/downloader etc and a very weak 'front end client' machine acting as your htpc such as a Raspberry PI.

Of the two routes, I'd probably go with the first as a NAS only really begins to shine when you access your content remotely.

MichaelAwkward · 24 Jun 2015 at 11:54

tek2k said:
What is the point of a knife? a knife is a cutting tool with a cutting edge or blade. Modern day knives are usually black handled with steel blades. Did that answer the question? No.

An appropriate answer would've been: A knife is a cutting tool with a cutting edge or blade which can be used to slice through other softer materials or objects. It makes for a much more efficient means by which to dice food for example into smaller pieces without having to use your fingers.

One is a description, the other is a definition of use.

Not trying to be an 'ass' either but if you're going to call someone up on it you should at least know what you're talking about

What are you going on about? Anyone with half a brain can work out what a knife is for from the answer "A knife is a cutting tool with a cutting edge or blade which can be used to slice through other softer materials or objects". There was nothing wrong with the answer given by cactusweasel. The problem lies with the OPs question in the first place. He might as well have asked what the point of a PC is... There was no need for the OP to have an attitude in response.

Now to answer OPs original question - a NUC is pretty pointless actually unless you're in the crowd that think a Mac Mini is a good idea too. It works for those looking for something small and out of the way and is pretty much a tiny PC.

However for the price, and if you have the space, I'd always build a small media PC instead as this can be easily upgraded, has better cooling and has better performance with things such as dedicated graphics cards. However, as someone else pointed out, you could have a very powerful NAS acting as a server/downloader etc and a very weak 'front end client' machine acting as your htpc such as a Raspberry PI.

Of the two routes, I'd probably go with the first as a NAS only really begins to shine when you access your content remotely.

So... a NUC is pointless unless it's not? Great contribution. :rolleyes:

OP, a NUC IS an SFF. However, a NUC may or may not be powerful enough. Build a SFF that is powerful enough for the tasks you want to perform.

james.miller · 24 Jun 2015 at 11:55

kaktus said:
I'm trying to understand why the NAS has to be the server here and not the HTPC?

Well, why would you want another box doing the serving? That just means you always need two boxes powered on.

As far as the server goes, it doesnt have to be a monster - it depends on the number of devices you intend to pull data from the server and the types of devices doing so.

for example, i use a HP microserver. It's a fantastic stores server for the price but it is built to a price and as such the cpu is the weakest component. for purely serving media, it's absolutely rock solid. However, when server video to weaker devices that require transcoding it can only really manage to transcode to one device at a time.

on the other hand, virtually all of my devices that i use (phones, tablets, amazon fire stick for example) support hardware decoding of the media, meaning i dont need to transcode the video meaning load on the server is minimal. This means i have no issues serving meida to these devices simultaneously. Infact i can serve 1:1 bluray rips and i'll run out of network bandwidth before the server complains (ie, 7 or 8 films at once).

so, geneeeerallly, its better to have a beefy server but these days imo there isnt such a need for it. As far as the clients go, no real need for beefy clients at all unless you are interested in things like smooth video project which gobble up CPU cycles.

tek2k · 24 Jun 2015 at 12:10

MichaelAwkward said:
What are you going on about? Anyone with half a brain can work out what a knife is for from the answer "A knife is a cutting tool with a cutting edge or blade which can be used to slice through other softer materials or objects". There was nothing wrong with the answer given by cactusweasel.

Oh really? anyone can deduce what a knife is for by its description? So for example a scalpel, which is also a sharp cutting tool, is the same as a kitchen knife is it? It has the same function and purpose as a butter knife does it?

The example I gave was to show the difference between 'what' and 'why' something which seems to be going way above your head. But you can stay butt-sore all day if you like, makes no difference to me.

So... a NUC is pointless unless it's not? Great contribution.

Yes that's exactly what I said *golf clap*

MichaelAwkward · 24 Jun 2015 at 12:22

Makes no difference to me either if you want to spend your time on the internet being unnecessarily pedantic for no obvious reason. And yes, that is basically what you said.

The whole point of the NUC is to be small and powerful enough for most computing tasks. You said it's pointless unless you're looking for something small and out of the way... which is the point of it. It is indeed a tiny PC.

OracIe · 24 Jun 2015 at 12:26

tek2k said:
Now to answer OPs original question - a NUC is pretty pointless actually unless you're in the crowd that think a Mac Mini is a good idea too.

Less of the stereo typing please.

FYI, I use my Brix (Gigabyte equivalent of a NUC) for keeping on 24/7 as it has much less of a power/noise/heat output of my main rig. I went for a 'beefy' Brix so I could run virtual machines on it, and I do, 3 in fact as well as the host OS (Windows 8.1) and it runs it all, at 4K without any fuss.

So no, not pointless at all.

wetpants · 28 Jun 2015 at 23:03

I can see the point of a NUC.

For me, the size is great if you're limited on space. The kids can use it to browse and do their learning.

For you - if you plan a build to game on - would probably benefit from a SFF build.

It all depends on your needs.

demon8991 · 29 Jun 2015 at 05:54

Bluecube got this spot on!

Get yourself a powerful NAS or Micro Server and let that do the work.

I have a Synology DS1515+ which can transcode easily and serves all of the TV's, iPads, PC's in the house. Plex Media Server has transformed my life and it works perfectly on Synology equipment and all of the other devices mentioned.

Some Smart TVs have Plex Media Apps built into them so you don't even need a HTPC. On one of my TV's I just use a Raspberry Pi 2 which can be had for £35 and I have Rasplex (Plex operating system on Raspberry Pi) installed which handles the display. It is amazing and turns on when the TV turns on and allows for browsing using the TV remote.

I strongly suggest you look up Plex Media Server if you haven't already and see what it can do. It is quite amazing the way it organizes your library and downloads all of the artwork, descriptions and information automatically.

If you need any help feel free to PM me as I have recently got this setup installed at home.

skaif · 29 Jun 2015 at 15:18

Well we have just ordered over 100 of them for my school. They are a damn sight quicker than what we had before and their small footprint makes them easy to hide away from prying fingers. All in all not a bad little device! I specced ours with 8GB ram and 250gb sammy EVO's