EV general discussion

[oweneades]

You anre over thinking this, there are few downsides to Intelligent.

You always get the 6 hour window, plus any others if they decide to charge the car outside this window.

The downside are if you have home batteries, because you can get cheap slots outside the usual fixed time. You need to work out a way to stop the car rinsing the batteries outside the usual scheduled slots.

Sometimes people get the odd failure, personally I’ve never had it fail but you can mitigate this if you are using the Tesla integration which you will be. Basically just set a schedule in the car to start charging at 11.30 and the car will always start. IO will override the schedule as needed, if it fails, it will just charge at 11.30. You’ll get 6 hours and that’s enough to add 56% charge to a long range Tesla. Unless the car is below 24% when you plug it in, you’ll hit 80% before the 6 hours is up so there is little risk of using peak time power.

Welcome to my brain...

Thanks for the reply. Our Model 3 is a ~50kWh SR+ so should be fine setting a schedule of 11:30 start and a limit of 80% as it will do that quite easily in the window - have no real issue in the 4 hour Go window to be fair (MG4 with its bigger battery and seemingly slower charge rate - per HV not comparing cars, is sometimes a little short - would be fixed by OI though.

We are planning on Solar and Batteries (latter first if cost doesn't work with our budget) when we come to renovate the house in the near future. Will need to factor in the car & trying to charge from the batteries. From memory on the HV you have to set it to charge from Solar manually anyway (Eco setting IIRC) so that should be fine so its just understanding how the batteries fit into the equation. Wouldn't a standard schedule set in the car prevent this for the most part (or does the cheap slot overrides cause the issue?).

I am struggling to think when I would need to charge the cars outside of the overnight window based on our usage profile so maybe not an issue in the grand scheme of things (unless I have mis-understood)?

 

[bigmike20vt]

Well it was fun this morning getting into the MG to find it had decided it didn't want to charge. No errors reported from either the car or the charger (HyperVolt) and my Model 3 charged fine the night before. Luckily it was still on 42% and can charge at work if I need to so not the end of the world.

Doing some digging it does appear to be a thing with random handshake issues but seemingly only impacting scheduled charging - from what I have read.

Its currently charging fine on our Pod Points at work, but I need to test it when I am back home to understand if it was a random one off (annoying but I can deal with that if it is the case) or something more problematic. I think the issue is specifically being triggered by no schedule set in the car but a schedule set by the charger* or a conflict between schedules set in car, app and the charger itself - I don't believe we have anything set in the car or the app but may have triggered something by accident.

*Done this way due to the daft way Tesla have setup their scheduled charging (either start or end but not both - yes I know the % limit can be set but I want the finesse of the end time).

I think I will (and need to) test:

- Normal charging with no schedule either side.
- Scheduled charging from the charger but nothing set in the car / app (will reset my schedule so I don't have to wait until 00:30 to see if it is not working).
- Scheduled charging in the car/app but nothing set on the charger - May need to switch between modes when I switch between cars being charged if this resolves any issue.
- Both schedules charging in the car and on the charger.

Note - On Octopus Go hence the requirement for scheduled charging.

Bit of a faff but I need to confirm what is happening.

sounds similar to issues I am having. it's being investigated as I type but early signs are communication issues with our harvi device which has the CT clamps on it and our zappi.

 

[panthro]

I'm sure this has probably been discussed to death in here, but can someone point me in the direction of what EV charger to choose and the best tariff to go for please?
BG has some sort of incentive that if you buy a Hive charger through them and use their tariff, you get something like 12k miles per year free charging. Seems good if you're paying for the EV charger yourself.

 

[bigmike20vt]

there are a few good EV tariffs. if your car is supported Intelligent Octopus (Go) is really good , I also like octopus as they seem to be the leaders pushing others to catch up so I am with them.

EON next is also very highly regarded

standard octopus go is also good if for what ever reason the above 2 are not suitable

make sure you get a referral from a friend or someone on here


chargepoints it depends on your circumstances. I have a zappi, because I have solar. if I didn't I would probably get an ohm

do you have your EV yet? some companies will install a complimentary EV with you if you buy or lease an EV from then

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Welcome to my brain...

Thanks for the reply. Our Model 3 is a ~50kWh SR+ so should be fine setting a schedule of 11:30 start and a limit of 80% as it will do that quite easily in the window - have no real issue in the 4 hour Go window to be fair (MG4 with its bigger battery and seemingly slower charge rate - per HV not comparing cars, is sometimes a little short - would be fixed by OI though.

We are planning on Solar and Batteries (latter first if cost doesn't work with our budget) when we come to renovate the house in the near future. Will need to factor in the car & trying to charge from the batteries. From memory on the HV you have to set it to charge from Solar manually anyway (Eco setting IIRC) so that should be fine so its just understanding how the batteries fit into the equation. Wouldn't a standard schedule set in the car prevent this for the most part (or does the cheap slot overrides cause the issue?).

I am struggling to think when I would need to charge the cars outside of the overnight window based on our usage profile so maybe not an issue in the grand scheme of things (unless I have mis-understood)?

It’s not that you want to charge the car outside the core window, intelligent octopus controls when the car is charged. So if the cheapest power available is from 8pm, you could be charging from 8pm.

If IO turns the car on, you get the cheap rate for that 30 min slot, regardless of time. They tell you when they’ll charge the car within the octopus app when you plug it in, this can be immediately.

If you get solar and you are on IO, you don’t want to charge your car from solar. Octopus pay 15p for solar export at the moment, it costs you 7.5p to charge your car in the cheap period. So in essence, it will cost you twice as much to charge it from solar as it does the grid.

Whenever you get a cheap slot, you’ll want to charge your house batteries too because that will only be 7.5p.

The issue with batteries is that they will monitor your grid usage and if you are pulling from the grid like when you are charging your car, they will discharge the batteries into the car. You want to opposite to happen really, you want them to charge up when it’s cheap and to export as much solar as possible at the higher rate.

The problem with batteries and IO is the dynamic nature of IO, in theory your Tesla could be charge at any point from when it is plugged in (the MG will always be timed charged). The lazy way round it is to just disable smart charging and do timed charges. You only have to let IO control the charge once per month to stay on the tariff currently.

You can use home assistant to get things to speak to each other or you can buy all your equipment from the same vendor, some have options which prevent the car charger taking energy from the battery because they can speak to each other.

 

[panthro]

there are a few good EV tariffs. if your car is supported Intelligent Octopus (Go) is really good , I also like octopus as they seem to be the leaders pushing others to catch up so I am with them.

EON next is also very highly regarded

standard octopus go is also good if for what ever reason the above 2 are not suitable

make sure you get a referral from a friend or someone on here


chargepoints it depends on your circumstances. I have a zappi, because I have solar. if I didn't I would probably get an ohm

do you have your EV yet? some companies will install a complimentary EV with you if you buy or lease an EV from then

Thanks. I have Eon Next already. Not got the car yet, mid March I think. It doesn't come with a charger unfortunately, but I might ask them if they are offering any incentives. I should probably get in touch with Eon too to see what they offer.

 

[crazyDAJT]

The issue with batteries is that they will monitor your grid usage and if you are pulling from the grid like when you are charging your car, they will discharge the batteries into the car. You want to opposite to happen really, you want them to charge up when it’s cheap and to export as much solar as possible at the higher rate.

You just need to move the CT clamp from the battery system so it can’t see the car charger load.

Most installers add a separate consumer unit for the car charger. So if you move the CT to only see house load. The car can do what it wants.

Then a bit of home assistant magic can force charge the battery in cheep rate period.

 

[bigmike20vt]

You just need to move the CT clamp from the battery system so it can’t see the car charger load.

Most installers add a separate consumer unit for the car charger. So if you move the CT to only see house load. The car can do what it wants.

I was told this isn't possible if you have a hybrid inverter

 

[bigmike20vt]

Thanks. I have Eon Next already. Not got the car yet, mid March I think. It doesn't come with a charger unfortunately, but I might ask them if they are offering any incentives. I should probably get in touch with Eon too to see what they offer.

ask about eon next drive version 2. it's better than standard drive (or so I was told - I am no expert as am with octopus)

 

[crazyDAJT]

I was told this isn't possible if you have a hybrid inverter

Complete BS.

My system has my incoming supply split using Henley blocks. Then one goes to my house consumer unit. The other to the car.

If I move the CT from my hybrid inverter to only monitor house load the car charger is irrelevant.

Edit: this is dependent on how your supply for you house and charger is confirmed.

Let me take a picture when I’m home.

 

[oweneades]

It’s not that you want to charge the car outside the core window, intelligent octopus controls when the car is charged. So if the cheapest power available is from 8pm, you could be charging from 8pm.

If IO turns the car on, you get the cheap rate for that 30 min slot, regardless of time. They tell you when they’ll charge the car within the octopus app when you plug it in, this can be immediately.

If you get solar and you are on IO, you don’t want to charge your car from solar. Octopus pay 15p for solar export at the moment, it costs you 7.5p to charge your car in the cheap period. So in essence, it will cost you twice as much to charge it from solar as it does the grid.

Whenever you get a cheap slot, you’ll want to charge your house batteries too because that will only be 7.5p.

The issue with batteries is that they will monitor your grid usage and if you are pulling from the grid like when you are charging your car, they will discharge the batteries into the car. You want to opposite to happen really, you want them to charge up when it’s cheap and to export as much solar as possible at the higher rate.

The problem with batteries and IO is the dynamic nature of IO, in theory your Tesla could be charge at any point from when it is plugged in (the MG will always be timed charged). The lazy way round it is to just disable smart charging and do timed charges. You only have to let IO control the charge once per month to stay on the tariff currently.

You can use home assistant to get things to speak to each other or you can buy all your equipment from the same vendor, some have options which prevent the car charger taking energy from the battery because they can speak to each other.

Thanks for the really comprehensive reply.

Lots to think about and may help on deciding which setup we go for.

Update on the car side of things:

MG is charging fine from the HyperVolt although I am yet to fully test a scheduled charge. Will trigger that overnight like normal as the Tesla has enough juice to deal with weekend journeys if the MG misses another charge window (plus I was able to get a good couple of hours in at work - helped by lots of solar generation so effectively free - bonus!!).

 

[b0rn2sk8]

You just need to move the CT clamp from the battery system so it can’t see the car charger load.

Most installers add a separate consumer unit for the car charger. So if you move the CT to only see house load. The car can do what it wants.

Then a bit of home assistant magic can force charge the battery in cheep rate period.

It’s not that simple and is totally dependent on your electrical set up.

You assume the car charger is connected physically at the last point before your meter. If your electrical set up (like mine) isn’t connected in this way, you can’t do this.

 

[SuperElectric]

So far I've been getting between 3.3 and 4.6 miles per kW, it seems to be down to weather rather than my driving tbh. Temp, wind, rain - it that order, maybe.

CarWow has done a few videos like this over the years, always liked watching them. I'm glad WhatCar is joining in.

 

[Ranger07]

CarWow has done a few videos like this over the years, always liked watching them. I'm glad WhatCar is joining in.

That was their best video on EV’s that I’ve seen where they actually acknowledge off peak charging rates, they usually just quote the price cap rates which no one with half a brain cell would be charging at.

 

[Tinders]

Glad they compared a heat pump and non HP version of the same car, its answered some of my range questions. I’m happy with a 230-250 range in winter.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Pretty decent video all things considered and those Lexus (Lexi?) got completely shown up, needless to say they were not impressed.

Interesting to see the Chinese cars were very optimistic with their reported efficiency via the trip computer and the Germans were sandbagging a bit.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Wow, I didn't realise how far off those cars were from their estimated range - or how well the Q8 50 compares.

In similar conditions I expect I'd be getting ~240 miles if it was run all the way to 0.

 

[lordrobs]

I skipped straight to the table because I'd rather watch paint dry than see cars run out of fuel for 25 minutes but the interesting thing for me is the comparison between the two id7's. Just a 14 mile difference for the sake of having a heat pump. On the one hand that is a noticeable difference but in the context of being over 100 miles short of the claimed range it's really not that huge of a difference.

Perhaps I missed something in the video that quantified that.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Wow, I didn't realise how far off those cars were from their estimated range - or how well the Q8 50 compares.

In similar conditions I expect I'd be getting ~240 miles if it was run all the way to 0.

Just think how far off they would be if they did the whole thing at 70, granted the weather was pretty dire.

 

[jpaul]

the battery life yt guy with the id7, had said they have heat pumps by default in norway/sweden,
which I took as they have the ambient temperatures zeroish, where the (unique) CO2 heat pump in the id7 becomes more useful,
nonetheless id3 owners had had VW refunds (class action no) when co2 heat pump had worsened their mpw and original implementation not lived up to promises