When are you going fully electric?

Soldato
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Why would it matter that much in a home purchase, if adding a charger only costs (for example) £1k? It might further increase the value of properties with off-street parking, though.

Not all houses can have a charger. Those on a looped supply. Or those with heavy electrical demand may also be supply fuse limited. I don’t think DNOs charge for an initial fuse upgrade, but if it’s a 2 BEV household, and you want another one then you might have to pay for it.
 
Soldato
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Indeed. There’s no way I’d buy any property now with a single phase power supply.

Why? A 7.4kw charger is more than enough to charge a car.

If you moved house, you’d have the choice of a hand full of properties across the entire U.K. with 3 phase, unless you plan on living in an industrial unit.


Why would it matter that much in a home purchase, if adding a charger only costs (for example) £1k? It might further increase the value of properties with off-street parking, though.

Think more fundamentally, e.g. is there a place to park that car than you can get power to. Loads of new builds have 3 way shared drives with garages. The middle person doesn’t get power in their garage and to get it there you would have to cross someone’s front garden and drive.

we looked at a few houses like this when we last moved, I would have vetoed them on the grounds of not being able to install a car charger in the future if they had met our other wants.
 
Soldato
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Why? A 7.4kw charger is more than enough to charge a car.

If you moved house, you’d have the choice of a hand full of properties across the entire U.K. with 3 phase, unless you plan on living in an industrial unit.
.

Where do you get this idea that 7.4kW is enough to charge a car? Based on what? A Vauxhall with a 50kWh battery (say 8 hours to allow for slowing over the last 20%), a 64kWh Hyundai (10 hours fir a full charge), a 77kWh VW (12 hours), a 93kW Taycan (14 hours)? Believe me, when you get home at 10pm and you want to go out at 5am, you’ll be wanting an 11kW charger too. And newer cars with big batteries like the Taycan have a 22kW charger option for this very reason.

And that’s with just one BEV in a household. Many households have multiple cars. That’s when 3-phases starts to become very attractive. Or you want to charge two or more cars on Octopus Go rates.

Also bear in mind that at some point soon they’ll ban the sale of new-install gas boilers and you’ll want a lot more power for heating.

The discussion started with a comparison with fast broadband. 20 years ago, if I’d said I’d only buy houses with a 70Mbps broadband connection, I’d have had the same response. There are people who look for the future now, and people who wait for the future to arrive.
 
Soldato
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But given the cost (tends of thousands apparently), I think the technology will evolve quick enough for most to just not require 3 phase. Granted, single car only, but 400 mile range from a 10 hour charge (@7.2kw)seems feasible soon. Sold state battery tech ( 5 or so years, maybe sooner) is expected to enable a 300 mile range from a 10 min charge, assuming public charge infrastructure. Charge at home and a quick splash and dash (buzz and dash?) at a public quick charge point if required & get another 300 mile range in 10 mins
 
Soldato
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But given the cost (tends of thousands apparently), I think the technology will evolve quick enough for most to just not require 3 phase. Granted, single car only, but 400 mile range from a 10 hour charge seems feasible soon. Sold state battery tech ( 5 or so years, maybe sooner) is expected to enable a 300 mile range from a 10 min charge, assuming public charge infrastructure.

It cost less than £3000 including VAT to upgrade my home. And you’re talking about 800V systems for charging, on a battery technology that doesn’t exist. The cars we’re buying new today are the used cars of 10 years time. Give it a few more years and you’ll want a 3-phase supply.
 
Man of Honour
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Why would it matter that much in a home purchase, if adding a charger only costs (for example) £1k? It might further increase the value of properties with off-street parking, though.
That's what I meant by 'potential', i.e. properties where you could provide power to your parking spot. Note that's not the same thing as off-street parking; we have off-street parking but cannot power it. I wrote a bit about the scenario here: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/forums/posts/34639187
 
Soldato
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It cost less than £3000 including VAT to upgrade my home. And you’re talking about 800V systems for charging, on a battery technology that doesn’t exist. The cars we’re buying new today are the used cars of 10 years time. Give it a few more years and you’ll want a 3-phase supply.
Ah, fair enough. £3000 isn't bad but can vary a lot apparently. I thought I had seen £30k+ mentioned but looking again, I quote from one source 'but this will be very expensive with costs ranging from £3,000 to £15,000.'.
Tbh 7.4kw is likely going to do me fine. I can easily leave a car charging 12 hours if needs be and just don't expect to need a huge range frequently, especially from a very low SOC to full before the trip. The government supposed to be ensuring the charging infrastructure improves too.

At £15k, someone would want to consider whether for them it's worth it or just wait for EV tech to improve, albeit, upgrading their car more frequently.
 
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Why do people still bang on about it being crucial to charge from virtually flat to full every day.
The average person wont need more than 2-3 hours a day. So 2-3 car households would manage fine with 1 charger even.

Ok sure some will but as long as the public infrastructure expands it will be fine for the rarer occasions people may need to do 300+ miles in a day
 
Soldato
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Where do you get this idea that 7.4kW is enough to charge a car? Based on what? A Vauxhall with a 50kWh battery (say 8 hours to allow for slowing over the last 20%), a 64kWh Hyundai (10 hours fir a full charge), a 77kWh VW (12 hours), a 93kW Taycan (14 hours)? Believe me, when you get home at 10pm and you want to go out at 5am, you’ll be wanting an 11kW charger too. And newer cars with big batteries like the Taycan have a 22kW charger option for this very reason.

And that’s with just one BEV in a household. Many households have multiple cars. That’s when 3-phases starts to become very attractive. Or you want to charge two or more cars on Octopus Go rates.

Also bear in mind that at some point soon they’ll ban the sale of new-install gas boilers and you’ll want a lot more power for heating.

The discussion started with a comparison with fast broadband. 20 years ago, if I’d said I’d only buy houses with a 70Mbps broadband connection, I’d have had the same response. There are people who look for the future now, and people who wait for the future to arrive.

This isn’t the internet, grid restrictions on domestic properties are few and far between compared to the quality of FTTC and availability of FTTP/cable.

Pretty much every BEV owner in the U.K. only has 7.4kw available per charger and says otherwise. Most houses have an 80a or 100a main fuse which is plenty for multiple cars.

The point is that your describing a scenario that while possible on paper, just doesn’t really bear out in reality for 99.9% of the population.

How many people do a 300+ mile drive, get home at 10pm on 0%, get up at 5am for another 300 mile drive? In reality it’s a handful of people have that requirement out of 60m+.

10pm to 5am will get you nearly 52kwh back less charging losses, say 46kwh or another 140-160 miles range.

As above, how many of those also have a second and third car that also does that kind of mileage/use? The vast majority of the population just doesn’t drive very far and charging tends to happen outside of hours where other high power appliances are in use. There are chargers which are clever enough to load balance across multiple vehicles if necessary.

I used to live in a 5 car household. I’d have liked 5 plugs mainly for convenience but in reality only 1 would have needed to plug in every working day, two every other working day and the other two once a week if the cars had a genuine 200 mile range and just charged overnight.

I’m not saying that it will not be a reality for a few people but generally speaking, it just isn’t even going to be a consideration for the vast majority of the population because it just doesn’t matter.
 
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Soldato
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Why do people still bang on about it being crucial to charge from virtually flat to full every day.
The average person wont need more than 2-3 hours a day. So 2-3 car households would manage fine with 1 charger even.

Ok sure some will but as long as the public infrastructure expands it will be fine for the rarer occasions people may need to do 300+ miles in a day

Because I use my car. I’ve done 450 miles today. I’ve rapid charged 3 times. And when I get home tonight at 10pm I’ll stick it on charge and it’ll be full at 6am tomorrow.

Not everyone does 10K miles per year.
 
Soldato
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Ah, fair enough. £3000 isn't bad but can vary a lot apparently. I thought I had seen £30k+ mentioned but looking again, I quote from one source 'but this will be very expensive with costs ranging from £3,000 to £15,000.'.
Tbh 7.4kw is likely going to do me fine. I can easily leave a car charging 12 hours if needs be and just don't expect to need a huge range frequently, especially from a very low SOC to full before the trip. The government supposed to be ensuring the charging infrastructure improves too.

At £15k, someone would want to consider whether for them it's worth it or just wait for EV tech to improve, albeit, upgrading their car more frequently.

https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/upgrade-reduce-electricity/time-and-cost

It starts at £1500+VAT and it depends how far your house is away from the main supply in the street, whether they have to close a street and whether they have to dig anything up.
 
Soldato
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I would prefer 11kW at 3 phase but not sure it’s a deal breaker yet. Like mentioned it’s the opportunity to manage the full electric households of the future that also draw you in. Old houses can continue to run on gas afterall and if you want to “green” those solar is an option to atleast do a good amount of hot water heating. - tht said my neighbour has just had their hot water cylinder removed for a normal combi setup. So much for that option in the future.
 
Soldato
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This isn’t the internet, grid restrictions on domestic properties are few and far between compared to the quality of FTTC and availability of FTTP/cable.

Pretty much every BEV owner in the U.K. only has 7.4kw available per charger and says otherwise. Most houses have an 80a or 100a main fuse which is plenty for multiple cars.

The point is that your describing a scenario that while possible on paper, just doesn’t really bear out in reality for 99.9% of the population.

How many people do a 300+ mile drive, get home at 10pm on 0%, get up at 5am for another 300 mile drive? In reality it’s a handful of people have that requirement out of 60m+.

10pm to 5am will get you nearly 52kwh back less charging losses, say 46kwh or another 140-160 miles range.

As above, how many of those also have a second and third car that also does that kind of mileage/use? The vast majority of the population just doesn’t drive very far and charging tends to happen outside of hours where other high power appliances are in use. There are chargers which are clever enough to load balance across multiple vehicles if necessary.

I used to live in a 5 car household. I’d have liked 5 plugs mainly for convenience but in reality only 1 would have needed to plug in every working day, two every other working day and the other two once a week if the cars had a genuine 200 mile range and just charged overnight.

I’m not saying that it will not be a reality for a few people but generally speaking, it just isn’t even going to be a consideration for the vast majority of the population because it just doesn’t matter.

You keep telling yourself that. And then look at all the restrictions they’re bringing in on natural gas usage. You’ll be wanting 3-phase power.
 
Soldato
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It’s okay, this guy is the biggest non-advocate of octopus go I’ve seen aswell...

Because it doesn’t work for everyone. It only works for people who live 9-5 lives and don’t use their car much. I think we’ve already established thats not me. All I’m saying is that if you had 11kW of charging available it’s like 6 hours of Octopus Go instead of 4. And if you’ve got a 22kW car (Taycan, eTron etc.) it’s like 12 hours of Octopus Go. And if you’ve got a 90kWh battery then you’ll be wanting all the charge speed you can get.
 
Soldato
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Yeah but you keep forcing the idea to others when you are the exception. I mean 450mile in a day and you think that means everyone is doing less is “not using a car very much” I just did 80 today. Relative high usage and smashes down the household average kWh cost as the peak rate is no higher than alternatives.

i agree I need a touch more hours personally so would move to Go faster for 5h, however an 11kW install wouldn’t wash its face for investment for years to save 0.5p a KWh.

EDF another one to consider with 8p diff rates but again will cost more for most typical drivers.
 
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Because I use my car. I’ve done 450 miles today. I’ve rapid charged 3 times. And when I get home tonight at 10pm I’ll stick it on charge and it’ll be full at 6am tomorrow.

Not everyone does 10K miles per year.

I never said they did, there are a few people who do mega miles, but for each one of them how many do fewer than average in order to calculate the actual average miles driven ;)

But its just simple fact, numerous sources if you wanna google, who will tell you that the vast vast majority are going to be fine even in 2-3 car households with 7KWH charging
 
Soldato
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Because I use my car. I’ve done 450 miles today. I’ve rapid charged 3 times. And when I get home tonight at 10pm I’ll stick it on charge and it’ll be full at 6am tomorrow.

Not everyone does 10K miles per year.
You are driving more than 20 times the average daily mileage, so are very much an exception. With that daily mileage it probably wasn’t worth going EV until the tech matured.
 
Caporegime
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Wonder how much capacity the power infrastructure has too if everyone decided they wanted 3 phase chargers

my house for example has a loop into my house then out to next door. No idea what that means for the future if both of us get EV chargers
 
Soldato
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You keep telling yourself that. And then look at all the restrictions they’re bringing in on natural gas usage. You’ll be wanting 3-phase power.

The only restrictions they have bought in relate to new properties which make sense because it costs pennies on the cost of a house to do it from the start (including full UFH and GSHP) compared to retrofitting.

Retrofitting even relatively modern properties is costly and those don’t even need and remedial work to deal with heat loss. Source: I got a quote for my own property.

Properties older than 30 years could need significant remedial work to even consider it.

The government know there is no current solution to deal with the tens of millions of existing homes and other buildings that need their space heating decarbonising. That’s why there is no date or even a muttering of a proposed solution at the moment.
 
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