When are you going fully electric?

Greebo said:
Same with ICE cars though. When I have had big 4x4 and towing a horse trailer fuel economy will half and hence the range will half.
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But you can replace that range in about 120 seconds. Which goes some way towards offsetting the inconvenience, though obviously not the cost.
 
Towing with EV's > There is also the inconvenience of having to un-hitch the trailer or caravan if you need to re-charge mid journey.
 
chanjy said:
That really is everything!

Wouldn't fancy towing with an XC40 EV though, the range must be atrocious.
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Yes it will be and it will be a challenge, one I don't actually relish as charging to some tracks like Angelsey etc is littered with 'fast' 7kw chargers and nothing faster in sight hence the PHEV preference, so it would really be a bind and would also involve a lot of unhitching etc, EV infrastructure are not ready for towing really, PHEVs definitely superior but being optimistic this should improve over time.

Certainly ICE cars are impacted massively with respect to range when towing but you can drive into any petrol station with trailer attached and fill and go in 5 mins and in fact even with atrocious range impact I can still do ~300 miles to a tank which is far better than most EVs non towing range. :D

We consider it still though as it is an inconvenience for a small proportion of our ownership.
 
That’s the part that EVangelists ignore when preaching.

I don’t have to plan for whatever might happen tomorrow, no matter how far the trip or if I need to suddenly fetch furniture/firewood/garden machinery in my trailer.

Providing I have 5kms worth of diesel to get to the nearest petrol station, I can just jump into my car and go.
 
I don’t think anyone sane argues that EVs are for everyone, particularly for towing caravans/horses hundreds of miles. But how many drivers actually regularly tow any significant distance? 0.1%, 1%?

Either way, it’s niche and there are plenty of good alternatives out there at the moment. By the time it’s actually a problem (e.g. post 2035 if you want a new vehicle) it probably will not be as problematic as it is now.
 
I've thought about reserving a Fisker Ocean as it has a good range at 390+, 50% of that would make most towing journeys a bit easier but I think the release of that car is quite far out and I don't know how realistic they are, looks great though and I like having an opening rear window, very convenient when you have bikes on the back and want to get in the boot, use that all the time on current tank.
 
sandys said:
I've thought about reserving a Fisker Ocean as it has a good range at 390+, 50% of that would make most towing journeys a bit easier but I think the release of that car is quite far out and I don't know how realistic they are, looks great though and I like having an opening rear window, very convenient when you have bikes on the back and want to get in the boot, use that all the time on current tank.
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What’s it’s towing capacity ?
 
Indeed, it has one of the most comprehensive warranties on the UK market by the looks of it but if it goes bankrupt again what good is it.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
I don’t think anyone sane argues that EVs are for everyone, particularly for towing caravans/horses hundreds of miles. But how many drivers actually regularly tow any significant distance? 0.1%, 1%?

Either way, it’s niche and there are plenty of good alternatives out there at the moment. By the time it’s actually a problem (e.g. post 2035 if you want a new vehicle) it probably will not be as problematic as it is now.
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Its becoming harder and harder. Max towing weights drop with every new model it seems and some of the PHEVs have awful towing weights. Was one reason I went with the BMW x5 45e.

EV's seem to have even worse towing weights which is surprising as on paper with all that torque, no gears and a heavy car, they should be the ideal towing vehicle. It certainly cant be due to failing the 18% slope test but there must be structural reasons behind the low max weights.
 
They have no multi speed gearbox is the exact reason they struggle with grades. And indeed body structure design for the tow weight can be difficult as the bulker the fixings for more weight to harder to get the rear crash structure to function on these short overhang heavy EV. So it’s a balance.
 
An EV will do 100mph in first gear. An ICE for towing may do 30mph. Doesn’t matter what the motor torque is if it’s not multiplied like an ICE. Wheel torque matters.
 
Simon said:
An EV will do 100mph in first gear. An ICE for towing may do 30mph. Doesn’t matter what the motor torque is if it’s not multiplied like an ICE. Wheel torque matters.
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An EV doesn’t have any issues with power, torque or gearing.

As @Jonnycoupe said towing capacity is all about chassis design, balanced against other properties such as weight, aesthetics and crash performance.

The reality is that towing is not really a priority in mass market vehicles because the mass market doesn’t tow.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
They have no multi speed gearbox is the exact reason they struggle with grades. And indeed body structure design for the tow weight can be difficult as the bulker the fixings for more weight to harder to get the rear crash structure to function on these short overhang heavy EV. So it’s a balance.
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Simon said:
An EV will do 100mph in first gear. An ICE for towing may do 30mph. Doesn’t matter what the motor torque is if it’s not multiplied like an ICE. Wheel torque matters.
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The Rivian can tow 5 tonnes and that only has one gear (AFAIK) so not sure its anything to do with that. A quick google suggests to down to the regenerative braking system being overwhelmed by the weight of the trailer which obviously for a niche market, manufacturers wont waste money on redesigning their braking systems.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
An EV doesn’t have any issues with power, torque or gearing.

As @Jonnycoupe said towing capacity is all about chassis design, balanced against other properties such as weight, aesthetics and crash performance.

The reality is that towing is not really a priority in mass market vehicles because the mass market doesn’t tow.
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Not sure thats what I meant to say if thats how its come accross. Low speed is a nightmare for inverter heat and sustaining performance aswell, down speeding the wheels so the IGBT switching is in a much happier place. With regards to Rivian, depends if they mean 5 tonnes on a flat at high state of charge or more appropriate use case for a wide range of attributes. Its a massive truck, with a big battery and over 800bhp quad motor setup. Hard to correlate to anything for UK use: Maybe my Defender doesnt really need a low speed transfer box mode?

What would I know? Best check this Google stuff.
 
it's the ev motor efficiency that counts, too, better at higher rpm, so having a gearbox enables you to accelerate with the towed load efficiently,
despite ev motor torque being higher than ice at low speed.
 
Having an EV already means you tow anything at any speed way more efficiently than ICE...

If people cant visualise wheel torque and how that relates to tractive effort this discussion is pretty pointless.
 
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