When younger people are more senior at work

[olderthansenior]

When I took my current job I feared my manager might be younger than me but fortunately he's slightly older. His manager though is 6 months younger than me and would have been in the year below me at school. He's at board level and never stops working so rather him than me, I'd love his salary but couldn't think of anything worse than working all the time.

I can't take him seriously though because he's younger than me. It just seems wrong to call a younger person more senior. It's not just him though, there are heads of other departments who are younger than me and again I don't see them as more senior.

It's a very young company too and I do not like it. There are even people who were born in the 21st century who work there. I remember when I was 23 I worked somewhere where everyone else was over 40 and loved it. Now I'm over 40 myself and I'm working somewhere where I'm one of the oldest. Seriously the office looks more like a school than a workplace.

Anyone else have the same problem? and what do you do about it?

 

[olderthansenior]

I'm in the wrong job for climbing the management ladder. Many of those senior people are known industry experts. The industry has never made any sense to me and I have no interest in it.

Even when I used to do extra curricular activities when I was younger such as youth club there was a common theme. It would be great in the beginning because everyone else there is older but it would get worse over time because the older people leave and the younger people join and I end up leaving myself before I reach the age I'm supposed to because it's got too many young people there.

Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of just leaving work because I need the money.

 

[olderthansenior]

If I was in an industry I have more of an interest in then I'd probably have more of a desire to climb the ladder. I hate the industry I'm in and hate my job.

 

[olderthansenior]

Interesting first post!

If you hate the company, the people there and the industry, why are you still there?

Where were you before you joined your current company, or have you always worked in an industry you hate?

Where were you when you were 23, and why didn't you stay there if it was so amazing?

I don't hate the people but I prefer the company of older people, always have. I do want to leave but whilst my job isn't industry specific I'm going to be at a disadvantage compared to those who have experience in those other industries.

I've spent most of my career in this industry. It's one I never gave any thought to until I got a job in it. In the beginning I tried my best to learn about the industry but I've never been able to get my head round it but I've also learned I have no interest in it whatsoever. Prior to that I was in a different uninteresting industry but at least I understood it. Obviously I didn't know how to do everyone's job at that company but I at least knew what each job entailed and I knew what the company was all about. In the industry I'm in now there are many companies who I've never understood the point of or have any idea of what they do. There are lots of industry events which as far as I can tell is just people gathering to spout a load of nonsense.

When I was 23 it was a temporary job so I had to leave it. That place doesn't exist anymore and the over 40s working there at the time have probably retired by now.

 

[olderthansenior]

Maybe you could become a COBOL or visual basic developer or something... only really old people doing that AFAIK*.

*Or at least in the UK that is, IIRC there are younger people in India being trained in COBOL).

No idea what any of that means but it sounds like something I don't want to do.

I get that being an individual contributor has its merits but for quite some time now I've done what I can individually contribute until the cows come home and have been ready to step up to management but not in this industry.

 

[olderthansenior]

My industry is advertising. I have lots of business ideas for other industries but have never had any ideas for advertising because I've got no clue what it's about and nothing makes sense. I also hate adverts.

I studied Business Management at university but I've never been a manager. A previous manager wanted to get in a junior for me to manage but he couldn't get approval from those above him. It's not like I've been asked to be a manager and said no but like I said I don't want to be a manager in the industry I'm in.

 

[olderthansenior]

I've been told that I'm really good at my specialism which has nothing to do with advertising but no so good on the business side of things. I'd be better at the business side of things if I was in a different industry.

I once worked for one of Mark Reads companies. He caused a stir a couple of years ago by bragging that the average age of his employees is under 30. I had no idea what that company was about. The point of that companies existence still remains a mystery to me.

Around 10 years ago I had an interview for a job in a more ideal industry. I was told my would be manager wanted to give me the job but his manager overruled and said no because I didn't have management experience.

 

[olderthansenior]

I don't really want to say incase someone from work is on here and identifies me. It's something that has nothing to do with advertising and there are people who do a decent job of it without knowing anything about advertising but you do hit a glass ceiling if you're not an industry expert which I'm not.

A colleague from a few years ago knew nothing about advertising but was good at the specialism. He moved to a completely different industry and worked his way up to vice president.

 

[olderthansenior]

I wouldn't say I'm oblivious to this, there are occasions where I am 'envious' of what a younger person has achieved, especially if I worked with them when they had a more junior role (i.e. I'm thinking "how has that person managed to land that job in that space of time without more stepping stones in between?"). But in some ways that can be inspiring, making me think that I could achieve similar.

My current employer is the first place I've worked where I think I'm significantly older than the average person. The next 'rung up' is mostly populated by people seemingly about 10 years younger than me and the founding directors are about 5 years younger. This isn't something that bothers me, I'm happy to work with younger people in a position of seniority. There have been rare occasions when I've felt their lack of experience has perhaps seen them backed into a corner and made slightly difference decisions than I would have done but that doesn't mean to say they don't have the aptitude to succeed (I'm sure I made similar errors at the same age).

I think this discussion also needs to be considered from the other side, i.e. if you are a young person in a position of seniority, how does it feel to engage with older subordinates? I never really had a problem with it but I was mid-30s before I moved into management anyway. Occasionally I see young people in senior roles be a little hesitant when dealing with older, outspoken individuals.

This is exactly what I'm saying. In my first job (not advertising) there was a senior manager who I would have guessed to be in his late 30s at the time who as far as I could tell was everything you'd ask for from a senior manager and he'd made his way up the ranks in that company. He employed a 64 year old who'd been there done that and bought the t-shirt and even once ran his own company. It just seemed wrong that he was reporting into someone so much younger than him.

Early on in my career I had an interview for a job I didn't get (not advertising) with the MD who was 44 at the time (I checked companies house). He said were I to get the job it would be several years before I'd be sent out to see clients because nobodies going to take what a 25 year old has to say seriously.

Now I'm not that much younger than that MD was at the time and find myself not being able to take what a 20 something has to say seriously but suddenly they're the ones who have the power. I question how did that happen.

OK I admit I should have made the effort to move industry as soon as I reached the point I didn't want to be promoted anymore or even before then.

On the subject of knowing people junior there was a graduate at the company I was working at 13 years ago who is very senior at the company he works for now and has been for some time. I still think of him as being a graduate though.

 

[olderthansenior]

I'm annoyed that the CEO of BP is 3 years younger than me.

That should be my job as I am older!!!

To be fair I'd not take there drop in earnings, but still, age n stuff means important as my old MD told me when I was 11.

Look in a mirror, that is the issue, not the age of those above.

That's not what I'm saying. Everybody in my industry above a certain level works round the clock. Their entire life revolves around the industry. I don't want that sort of life especially in an industry I hate. Unless there's an emergency (in advertising, yeah right) I don't work any more than my contracted hours.

If I worked in a more interesting industry then I may be willing to dedicate more of my life to it.

 

[olderthansenior]

Leaving the industry is easier said than done. Like I said I had an interview 10 years ago in an industry I'm very much interested in but didn't get it because I didn't have management experience. As I'm now earning more and still don't have management experience then I'm not going to get a job there now.

Last time I did leave the industry I was working in a temporary job. Once that ended I was offered a job in this industry so came back to it because it was either that or unemployment.

I don't think anyone would pass an interview if they said what they really thought.

The advertising industry is notorious for being full of young people but that's not to say other industries don't have them too. I found it very disheartening a couple of years ago when I had an interview with a department head at a bank who had only been out of university for 3 years (I checked their LinkedIn). I didn't get that job but definitely thought I should be managing them and not the other way round.

 

[olderthansenior]

If that person went to university when they were 18 (which I would guess they did because they looked about 12) then that means I finished school before they even started school.

My degree is in business management and I have no experience of banking.

I have changed jobs more than once in the last 10 years. The job I referred to did have management responsibilities.

It's true that I should leave this industry. I thought I'd succeeded in doing that with my last job.

 

[olderthansenior]

I think your disdain and generally puzzling attitude towards younger people will probably not be very helpful in securing a management role.

Is it puzzling though? If somebody was born in the 1990s I can't help but regard them as babies.

You should probably give up work, you clearly dont want to work, dont want to better your self, got given clear instruction on how to improve 10 years ago and did nothing with it.
Lets face it, you have not put any time in to better yourself and feel entitled that you should be in a better position due to your age and age alone. Your skills or wants dont mean a thing if you dont have any experience, especially for moving to a new industry/company and seeking a management role.

"It's true that I should leave this industry. I thought I'd succeeded in doing that with my last job." - so you chose a job doing the same thing without researching the context of the org nor what they do? how the hell did you land the job as it would be embarrassing to see how unprepared you are.

Get the hell off here and go get some counselling, you got some internal problems that are not work related.

Of course I don't want to work but I need the money. I thought I was going to get management experience 10 years ago there were plans in place for someone for me to manage to come in. Yes I stuck around too long when it became apparent it wasn't happening.

I chose a job that was in a different industry and I was a lot happier doing said job. I came back to this industry because my only alternative at that point in time was unemployment.

I have staff below me 15 years older then me. I worked hard to get to this position and if any of them gave me a hard time because of it they would be out the door very quickly.

Luckily they are all reasonable people and we work well together, with your attitude you won't be going anywhere fast.

I've worked hard to get to where I've got to but hard work doesn't get rewarded in advertising. That's why I stopped caring years ago.

 

[olderthansenior]

Yes, it is puzzling.

Age doesn't automatically make you better at things.

Take your good self, it sounds like you've spent 10 years not improving or changing or learning - if you are 40 then you are effectively 30 in terms of experience.

Which means that you might as well have been born in 1992.

Which makes you a baby.

Lets say someone gets a graduate job in advertising aged 21 and they get promoted each year until they are 26 when they become Vice President which is the highest you get before you go into MD/CEO territory. 10 years later they are still Vice President. Does that mean they might as well still be 26 instead of 36?

okay maybe I mis-read a few things but thats not how it come across, it seemed this way all your choosing.
hell the fact you have sat around doing nothing for 10 years on the whim of a promise of potentially managing someone below you is bonkers.

This is for everyone - if your employer promises you anything and its not being delivered within a year, its time for a new job and get out as soon as possible.

You stuck around for too long, do you think it is fair to punish younger who havent stuck around and who have pulled their finger out to get what they want? I dont, personally all this sounds like is envy and entitlement.
You are envy that younger are progressing, feeling entitled that it should be yours without training or experience.

Stop with the pity party and everything else in this thread, get up and do something about it and improve yourself, or dont and stay in the same ****.

spot on!

Your clear hatred for driven, determined younger people is quite worrying. Does this move in to other aspects of your life? If a younger person has a better car? better house? Are you bitter, full of envy and hate for them?

I've not sat around doing nothing for 10 years. I did hang around at the company I was at for longer than I should have but I did leave. The job I went to had a manager who was 16 years older than me and the rest of the team was flat structured where everyone was slightly older than me when I joined. That manager was constantly fighting battles and being given near impossible targets. One thing you were guaranteed at his level was that you would get pushed out one day.

Given that and the fact I'd still not managed to get my head around advertising and had never had any interest in it I decided I needed to move industries. I got a job in a different industry that was a one year contract with the view to go permanent afterwards. Then covid happened so the job ended.

Being unemployed at a time when loads of people were losing their jobs I couldn't afford to be too picky so I took the first job I was offered which is the one I'm doing now which is back in the advertising industry.

I was once young and ambitious myself but the advertising industry drained it all out of me.

Yes it does move into other aspects of my life. I was fuming when my younger cousin started making more money than me. I also refuse to listen to any music by anyone younger than me and always check their date of birth first.

 

[olderthansenior]

It depends. If they randomly post onto a computing forum moaning how much they hate people younger than them and how depressing it is that someone younger than them was made MD/CEO, then yes they haven't grown in 10 years and might as well be 26 as far as experience is concerned.

I thought this was a career advice forum. What you've said is exactly the point though, once a youngster becomes more senior at work it makes you question what went wrong.

Really all im seeing is excuses for something not working out rather than taking the initiative to work on yourself and improve yourself, maybe you should take a deeper look in the mirror. You dont hate the younger people, you hate your self, you are just jealous of younger people with more drive and determination.
You've sat around for 10 years doing nothing to progress you. Hell, the only thing thats progressed in 10 years is your bitterness.

What am I supposed to do then?

I was sent a job spec today for a job in a much more interesting industry. The owner of the company was born in 1987 though. Do I go for it or not?

On one hand it should be a good move as I should have more desire to move onwards and upwards but the fact will remain that there will always be a younger person above me because obviously I would never be more senior than the owner.

 

[olderthansenior]

When have I said I don't like the advice?

I've never told anyone I don't like them being more senior than me because they're younger. There's a lot of things I refrain from saying at work.

When I was 16 I worked with someone in the year above me at school who used to mess around all the time. He didn't get sacked but he got a written warning and when he left to go to university he was told he wouldn't be welcome back. After university he moved to London and got a job in an area that interests him. When I learnt of this I thought if he can do that then so can I.

He bought a flat when he was 25 for £200k. Then 10 years later he was the most senior person at his company aside from the owner and bought a big house in the countryside for £565k and kept his London flat to rent out. His house is now worth £690k and his flat is now worth £375k so that means once he's paid the mortgage off he'll be a millionaire.

I bought my property later and have paid off the mortgage but I'm nowhere near being a millionaire.

Going back to my original ambitions though I only addressed the occupation but never addressed the industry. Simply put if I had got the first graduate job I interviewed for which was in an industry I was really enthusiastic about then I'm sure I would be pretty senior by now.

 

[olderthansenior]

Continually?

You originally had two questions:

Anyone else have the same problem? The answer is "no".

and what do you do about it? The answer is "deal with it".

The rest of the thread appears to you just giving excuses as to why you are where you are, rather than addressing your issues. You can't change what happened, and it sounds like you can't change your attitude, so we're at a bit of an imp arse.

There has been other people who have said they have managers who are younger than them so clearly other people do have the same problem. The difference is they don't seem to mind it.

A former manager of mine had a manger around 5 years younger than him. They're both in their 60s now and still friends with each other but have since both left that company. He said that manager was more or less the best in the business at what he did and couldn't speak highly enough of him. I can't honestly say the same about those younger than me though. Their strengths are living and breathing the industry.

I admit I have made mistakes but if this thread has taught me anything its that I should move to a new industry and rocket up the ladder.

hit it on the head, guys a waste of oxygen.

sounds like a you problem, maybe stop being entitled will be a good start, then unpack and break down why you are such a miserable guy with no drive or determination to fix his own **** but constantly thinks its others fault, thats without even jumping on your hatred for anyone younger than a week doing better than you. Dont go for any job, no one wants you and that ****** attitude, you should be grateful to work with people of all ages, sex, backgrounds and everything else, regardless of their position, they deserve it, stop being a tos ser.

constantly challenging everything, everyone and coming up with excuses why it hasnt worked is a clear sign you dont like the advice, refusal to accept you have some internal issues relating to younger being further in any way, shape or form is another thing.
"I've never told them the truth" I just sprout it off on an internet forum making myself look like the biggest idiot.
Honestly mate, its a shame no one at your work has found this account of yours and this nonsense view, you'd be out the door immediately and rightfully so.

"Oh I had a waste friend whos made himself a millionaire, ive done the done but im not, why" because you havent done the same thing you idiot, he made moves got in senior positions and made the most of his opportunity. You waited for someone else to make their move and tried to copy, now crying because you dont have the same life.

"I'm sure I would be pretty senior by now."
no you wouldnt, your crappy attitude is the problem here.

Around 12 years ago I was listening to a conversation between 2 colleagues. One didn't go to university until her 20s and the other went travelling for a few years after university. Therefore they both didn't start their careers until their late 20s. One said they hate having people younger than them who are higher up such as person x and the other agreed.

Person x is still at that company as is the person who named them and person x is still much higher up the ladder to them.

The reality is that most of us would be out the door if we were honest with our opinions at work.

What happened to the person on track to be a millionaire is that he handed his notice in and the company owner gave him a place on the board to make him stay. He also made better decisions when it came to buying property. Had I bought a £200k flat when I was 25 I may have been on track to be a millionaire myself.

Man needs to humble himself and practice some gratitude. If you cannot do this, you'll never be able to get anything more because your life is a string of comparisons to others. Focus on you and your life.

That's difficult to do when I'm surrounded by youngsters all the time.

 

[olderthansenior]

No it's not. Why is it? What does that change? Other than trigger some sense of resentment that you haven't achieved what you could have?

The oldest person there to my knowledge is 53. Where are all the older people? I would guess that over 80% of the company are under 40. That's not even half way through your career.

But you didn't.


Who gives a ****?


It's not a "problem" though. It's a situation. I am more senior than a lot of much older people. I'm the youngest person on our leadership team. I couldn't give two ***** if a younger person was my manager if they were good. I care about what they do, not their age.

The biggest thing you should take from it, is make a change or quit bitching about it. Complaining is easy. Doing something about it is harder. Those people you speak of have taken action whilst you have not and now regret it. That's no one else's "problem" but your own.

I know I didn't, but I can't catch up by buying a big house in the country for £690k because I don't earn enough to borrow that. I didn't know that bloke had bought his property until I was 29, I just assumed he rented until then.

whaaa whaaa whaaa these people did this, this is my opinion which also happens to be everyone's opinion...
Apart from it isnt and you are still in the same position doing nothing and just whinging about it.... the other guys made choices and decisions, followed through them and benefitted. Person X and whoever else, who cares if they are progressing and one did one thing and one the other, both are doing something positive and moving forward.
You are not though.

Also, I am very honest with my work, I havent been sacked yet.

My point is 2 people said in the office exactly why I've said here yet you think I should be sacked for simply thinking it.

I have also made lots of sacrifices for my career. I was ready to buy a house, get married and have kids when I was 23. I then decided not to in order to move to London because if that bloke I spoke of could do it so could I. Had I bought a house, got married and had kids at 23 then I'd now be mortgage free on a bigger property and my oldest kid would probably have a job themselves now.

I spent many Saturdays going to work colleagues birthdays that I didn't want to go to in the name of networking. That's not to mention media Thursdays having conversations down the pub with colleagues and people in the wider industry about the industry which is the biggest borefest ever.

 

[olderthansenior]

I think you're just not very good sadly for you.

At my job?

I've been told I'm exceptionally good at my occupation. My weakness is industry knowledge which like I've pointed out before has always gone over my head. I never socialise with people at work anymore because I don't want to go any further in this industry.

The smart boomers have all retired early with their un-earned property fortunes.


Pretty sure this thread takes that crown.

Are you saying most people over 53 no longer work?

 

[olderthansenior]

You're exceptionally good at being a walk over with zero knowledge or determination to improve your situation. But full of ****** opinions on how you cant be wrong.
this is my last reply, the guy is an actual clown. Troll or not, surprised they are still alive.

Given what you just said I'm probably not going to get a reply, but I really want to know why are you surprised I'm still alive?

You have a point about being a walk over. It's difficult to stand my ground when I'm in an industry I have zero knowledge of. I'm more likely to stand my ground if I have the knowledge to back it up.