Where do Hamilton and Vettel rank against the greatest drivers?

[spudbynight]

If you look at the pure numbers, both Vettel and Hamilton are four-time world champions. They both also have more race wins than any other drivers apart from Schumacher.

As someone who remembers watching drivers like Senna and Prost, I find it hard to view these guys as being a league ahead of them. Personally, I think Hamilton is a fantastic driver but I wouldn't yet put him ahead of either Prost or Senna. I think Vettle is a fast driver, but despite having four titles isn't worthy of being compared to Prost, Senna or even Mansell, Picquet or Lauda.

 

[spudbynight]

I can only really speak with any confidence for the drivers I have seen in my lifetime. That means the 80s onwards.

I think Mansell was a great driver, but a rather unlucky one. I'd actually put him ahead of Piquet who I don't rate that highly. He was as lucky as Mansell was unlucky. Of that era, neither could hold a candle to Prost and Senna. Senna is still the greatest driver I have ever seen. Some of his performances in a slow McLaren against the amazing Williams that Prost drove to his 4th title were amazing.

Schumacher was a great driver, I can't take that away from him. His wins for Benetton were very impressive. The thing is he was at his most successful in an era where he had the best car and the overall standard of other drivers was poor.

For me, any driver who manages to win a world title is a great driver to some extent. To really move above that though, a driver has to win races when in a poor car and/or against another top-tier driver in the same team. In my lifetime I would put Senna, Prost, Schumacher and possibly Hamilton into that category. I really think that Vettel is a driver who is very lucky to have achieved what he has. He won four titles in the best car on the grid. His wins came with him as the undisputed number one in his team. His performances under pressure have really shown the gap between him and Hamilton. I'd put Alonso far ahead of Vettel. Alonso, has, unfortunately, had the bad luck to mirror what Vettel received.

 

[spudbynight]

Can't believe no one has mentioned the true GOAT

In simple terms there is only one greatest driver of all time and that is Juan Manuel Fangio.

He won almost 47% of all races he entered, 52 race starts, 24 wins.

He won 5 world championships with four different manufacturers, most of which were not the fastest or best car on the grid at the time.

Look at almost every single champion since and they were in one of the very best if not the outright fastest car on the grid.

The thing is nobody here watched Fangio drive.

I've only commented on the drivers I have watched, which is 1980s onwards. I could comment on earlier drivers but it would really just be recycling the views of others. I don't feel I am qualified to comment on drivers from the 70s back.

Senna that season was something else. What I hadn't realised though was how many 1-2s Williams had... one, just a single one at Magny-Cours. It just shows how good Senna was to drag that thing around and sometimes beat a team that was often nearly 2 seconds quicker in qualifying. To finish second in the title race and just 26 points behind Prost was just... wow.

It was something else. Some of his performances in the rain that season were just epic. I remember him winning the European GP at Donnington. He was masterful in the wet and managed to win by over a minute.

For me all the great drivers have been able to perform in cars that were not the fastest on the grid. Schumacher did it in the Benetton. Alonso did it in the Renault and again with Ferrari. Hamilton did it for years with McLaren. Even Damon Hill impressed me with a few of his drives for Arrows.

Prost was a fantastic driver and is up there with the best. His political scheming ensured he was always in a competitive car. He did at least drive in the same car as Senna.

It is something that Vettel hasn't shown he can do. He might be capable of it, but so far he hasn't shown it. In fact, he hasn't impressed this season in the Ferrari which has been the fastest car for most of the year.

 

[spudbynight]

Anyway its not like its just me who points this out, Pat Symonds once scolded Brundle live on TV for using that term and saying it winds engineers up no end.

You aren’t an F1 engineer by any chance?

 

[spudbynight]

Just on the topic of Mansell, I am amazed more people don't recognise his talent.

He is 7th in the all time list of race wins and achieved this while racing in the era of Senna and Prost. I think that both Senna and Prost were superior drivers to Mansell when you consider their whole package. When it came to sheer race pace, Mansell was pretty evenly matched with them. He also raced in the era of Piquet and I would actually rank Mansell higher than him.