Where do I start? (New TV advice required)

[i know nothing]

I'm totally out of touch with what's available on the market at the moment and I have been for some time.

I've recently upgraded my broadband to the latest super fast fibre broadband or whatever it is called. I've laid a CAT6 network cable from my BT Hub 5 to where the TV will be located in anticipation of getting my new TV.

I still watch an old CRT TV connected to an old Sky digibox, it's all about 12 years old.

I'm interested in getting a smart TV, because I think that's what I want... truth is I'm really not sure. I'm interested in watching some movies and I need the childrens channels for the kids, apart from that the freeview channels are fine. What I don't need is an additional £30 odd going to Sky, £10 a month would be okay, possibly £15.

I've been looking at a LG 49UB820V smart tv and I want to connect it to my freesat dish. That should give me all my "freeview" channels. I would need to get a new aerial if I wanted freeview and my understanding is that there is no point if I can get freesat, is that so?

I was interested in getting one of those NOW TV boxes, but I see they're 720 and not 1080, kind of defeats the object of getting HD as far as I can determine. So I've been looking this evening at the Apple TV box as that is 1080 and looks to be of interest. But then I'm asking myself, don't these smart TV's come with all of this pre-installed? Do I need any of these add on boxes? Truth is I don't really know. I'd really like to hear any advice as I'm getting kind of lost here!

 

[nicknack35]

Well i was looking at getting a smart tv for one of our bedrooms we have Smart for our main living room tv but looking at the different boxes you can get now for non smart TV'S. i was looking at MINIX NEO X8-H Plus which can dso a lot more then any smart TV and on a plus side you can stream sky for nothing lol

 

[sprite1275]

Might be best to get the smart TV first and then decide if you want to add to it after you see what apps they have.

 

[i know nothing]

Might be best to get the smart TV first and then decide if you want to add to it after you see what apps they have.

Netflix is one of those that I'd like to have, I believe the Smart TV I've been looking at comes with it pre-installed.

Am I right in saying that most of these boxes (like Apple TV) are designed for people who don't have "smart" tv's and they effectively make them "smart"?

 

[sprite1275]

Netflix is one of those that I'd like to have, I believe the Smart TV I've been looking at comes with it pre-installed.

Am I right in saying that most of these boxes (like Apple TV) are designed for people who don't have "smart" tv's and they effectively make them "smart"?

I think so mate, I ain't too up on it myself. I have a Sony kdl50 and that has Netflix, BBC iPlayer, 5demand, you tube, Amazon instant video with loads of other apps.

 

[lucid]

First, I'd say that buying any half decent TV that isn't Smart is getting harder and harder. It is becoming a standard feature. That then means that the idea of buying a TV that isn't Smart with the view to saving some money is a false economy. The reason is that it's increasingly the case that only the very lowest spec models in each major manufacturer's range come without Smart features. The base models are those that have the poorest screen technology (outdated versions, lower contrast, slower refresh rate, greater image lag). The step-up models are often Smart by default, but are also better TVs too.... and isn't that the main function.

All that said, there's quite a difference between the manufacturer's idea of what constitutes a Smart TV and what the various Smart boxes can do. Manufacturers are somewhat limited in their approach. They try to funnel content through their own portal, so you're stuck with their idea of what apps you can use. This is something of a culture shock if you're coming to Smart TV for the first time and expecting the sort of freedom to download apps that you might get with a laptop or tablet. TV manufacturers just aren't that willing to make their TVs open platform in that way; even the Sony TVs with Android are still limited to "approved by Sony" apps. None of the TV manufacturers want you going off reservation, so to speak.

So the situation so far is that you're likely to buy a TV that's Smart by default just to get something that works well as a TV, but then you'll find that the Smart features are somewhat limited if you want to start streaming (ahem ... cough cough) questionable content .

Enter, the Smart box.

Here there's fewer limits to what you can do. Products such as Apple TV3 (soon to be replaced by ATV4) are a little more restricted due to their single manufacturer ecosystem ethos compared to say Raspberry Pi2 or the Android TV boxes, but they're pretty much all more flexible than the built-in Smart features on new TVs.

Freesat vs Freeview.... the TV services are largely the same with the slight exception of a few channels. There are channel listings web sites that cover Freeview and Freesat so you can compare the differences directly.

It's not clear from your post if you expect to plug in a satellite dish feed directly to the set or you are going via a Freesat tuner/recorder of some description. The TV you've mentioned only has Freeview HD tuner (DVB-T2) for a TV aerial rather than a dish, but you can connect your old Sky box to the TV with a SCART or a newer Sky HD box with a HDMI cable.

The number of TVs with a satellite tuner (DVB-S) or HD satellite tuner (DVB-S2) is quite small, so your choice is correspondingly smaller and you're probably going to find there's something of a price premium for direct satellite reception.

I notice that the LG TV is a £600 4K set. I'd recommend you go see this and compare standard definition TV on it compared to a similarly priced 49-51" 1080p TV. Scaling standard def TV to 1080p is hard enough. Scaling it to 4K takes a bit more oomph. Be sure that the picture looks as good as a 1080p set before you part with any cash.

 

[pepp77]

One thing to note, Freesat capable TVs are much rarer than Freeview capable TVs, so check this carefully.

 

[i know nothing]

It's not clear from your post if you expect to plug in a satellite dish feed directly to the set or you are going via a Freesat tuner/recorder of some description. The TV you've mentioned only has Freeview HD tuner (DVB-T2) for a TV aerial rather than a dish, but you can connect your old Sky box to the TV with a SCART or a newer Sky HD box with a HDMI cable.

The number of TVs with a satellite tuner (DVB-S) or HD satellite tuner (DVB-S2) is quite small, so your choice is correspondingly smaller and you're probably going to find there's something of a price premium for direct satellite reception.

It is my intention to plug the Sky dish directly into the TV. I'm wondering if I've used the right LG model number. I looked at the back of the TV in the shop and it had a F style connector for satellite on the back, it also had an RF type connector for a TV aerial. If I have to fit an HD aerial in order to get the right the TV, then so be it, I'll get one.

Here's a thought... do I need to upgrade the LNB to receive HD? My current LNB must be 15 years old...

I notice that the LG TV is a £600 4K set. I'd recommend you go see this and compare standard definition TV on it compared to a similarly priced 49-51" 1080p TV. Scaling standard def TV to 1080p is hard enough. Scaling it to 4K takes a bit more oomph. Be sure that the picture looks as good as a 1080p set before you part with any cash.

I'll hold my hand up here and say that I'm not really that knowledgeable about this 4k thing at all. My understanding is that it is a standard that hasn't been formally adopted yet and that 1080 is still the de facto standard for the foreseeable future. I suspect I would be quite happy to plump for a good quality 1080 TV which was smart, but I'm not quite sure what TV would meet that requirement.

Please feel free to suggest any 40-48" TV which you think I should take a serious look at! Edit: Not really that bothered about 3D.

One thing to note, Freesat capable TVs are much rarer than Freeview capable TVs, so check this carefully.

Advice noted.

 

[lucid]

It is my intention to plug the Sky dish directly into the TV. I'm wondering if I've used the right LG model number. I looked at the back of the TV in the shop and it had a F style connector for satellite on the back, it also had an RF type connector for a TV aerial. If I have to fit an HD aerial in order to get the right the TV, then so be it, I'll get one.

There's no such thing as a HD aerial. If someone is trying to flog you that then it's a con or they're talking out of their backside. Either way, give them a wide berth and just walk away.

Any standard TV aerial will pick up the transmissions for HD just.the same as it does for regular Standard Definition. It's the tuner in the TV set that discriminates between standards. If your Freeview reception is rubbish then get a new aerial. But if it's fine then just add the new TV.

Ditto the above for the LNB.

I'll hold my hand up here and say that I'm not really that knowledgeable about this 4k thing at all. My understanding is that it is a standard that hasn't been formally adopted yet and that 1080 is still the de facto standard for the foreseeable future. I suspect I would be quite happy to plump for a good quality 1080 TV which was smart, but I'm not quite sure what TV would meet that requirement.

The 4K standard is established. What's missing is full bit rate 4K source material in wide distribution to play. There isn't yet a commercially released 4K Blu-ray player and disc yet. What 4K content there is is highly compressed streaming from the likes of Netflix and some other online sources. However, this hasn't stopped the TV manufacturers steaming ahead with 4K TV production and starting a price war in a land grab for market share. This is where cheap 4K TVS such as that LG come from. Everything is cut to the bone just to hit a silly cheap price point. £600 is still in budget territory for a 50" 1080p TV let

 

[i know nothing]

There's no such thing as a HD aerial. If someone is trying to flog you that then it's a con or they're talking out of their backside. Either way, give them a wide berth and just walk away.

Any standard TV aerial will pick up the transmissions for HD just.the same as it does for regular Standard Definition. It's the tuner in the TV set that discriminates between standards. If your Freeview reception is rubbish then get a new aerial. But if it's fine then just add the new TV.

Ditto the above for the LNB.

To be fair that was my assumption. I've noticed that the new aerials that have gone up are physically different. As for the LNB's, the new dishes have two cables running from the LNB, mine has just one. If it's not necessary for me to change them, then great!

The 4K standard is established. What's missing is full bit rate 4K source material in wide distribution to play. There isn't yet a commercially released 4K Blu-ray player and disc yet. What 4K content there is is highly compressed streaming from the likes of Netflix and some other online sources. However, this hasn't stopped the TV manufacturers steaming ahead with 4K TV production and starting a price war in a land grab for market share. This is where cheap 4K TVS such as that LG come from. Everything is cut to the bone just to hit a silly cheap price point. £600 is still in budget territory for a 50" 1080p TV let

Care to suggest a TV I should consider? Or a spec I should look out for? Seriously, I'm all ears, all advice gratefully received.

 

[lucid]

To be fair that was my assumption. I've noticed that the new aerials that have gone up are physically different. As for the LNB's, the new dishes have two cables running from the LNB, mine has just one. If it's not necessary for me to change them, then great!

Aerials are physically different because the way the channels are distributed at each transmitter is changing to make way for the sell off of more of the TV bands for mobile communications. The old idea of having an aerial that works well in a narrow band of frequencies is now rarely a valid choice for many. Also, the big wide band and high gain aerials are a bit of a con. They aren't "high gain" and "wide band" at the same time. The result is that for transmitters using the lower mux channel numbers then those large aerials are actually quite poor. A Log Periodic aerial is almost as efficient at low, middle and high frequencies. We say that that is has a relatively flat response. This is ideal where your local transmitter uses a wide spread of mux frequencies or where they they are grouped in the bottom or mid range.

There are of course the odd exception, but as general guidance a Log Periodic is a decent choice for many homes and that's what you'll see competent installers erecting across the land.

The two wires from an LNB is because it contains multiple receiving devices - 4 typically (4 outputs = Quad LNB) and this allows the Quad LNB to feed boxes that have multiple tuners. The Sky+ and Sky+HD boxes allow the recording of one channel while watching another. For this the box needs two inputs, and hence why you commonly see two wires. The Quad LNB can feed two such recorders or one recorder and two live view devices or 4 live view devices.

If you were to continue with your plans then I'd suggest swapping the standard live view Sky box for a recorder box on your same package. Others might be able to advise in more detail, but I doubt there's much if any price difference. I think you'll really like the live pause/rewind live TV and recording features. With the basic Entertainment package you get much more variety than with Freesat or Freeview. You'll also enjoy some of the free-to-view HD channels too. You could run this off your current single output LNB if you were happy to forego some features; but my advice is bring your system up-to-date by swapping to a Quad LNB (literally unclip one and clip in the other - simple) and replace the single downlead with the twin version.

As for TVs, have you had a look at the HDTVTest web site? The Samsung UE48H6400 gets a very good rating and it's available for around the £550 mark with a 6 year warranty.

 

[i know nothing]

You've cleared up quite a few things I had been wondering about there Lucid, much appreciated.

If you were to continue with your plans then I'd suggest swapping the standard live view Sky box for a recorder box on your same package. Others might be able to advise in more detail, but I doubt there's much if any price difference. I think you'll really like the live pause/rewind live TV and recording features. With the basic Entertainment package you get much more variety than with Freesat or Freeview. You'll also enjoy some of the free-to-view HD channels too. You could run this off your current single output LNB if you were happy to forego some features; but my advice is bring your system up-to-date by swapping to a Quad LNB (literally unclip one and clip in the other - simple) and replace the single downlead with the twin version.

Just some clarification... I don't currently have any Sky package. What I have is an old Sky Digibox which dates circa 2002, my subscription stopped around 2005, about 10 years ago! I've been using it since then to watch the "free" SD channels, but it won't show any of the HD free channels as you've pointed out.

Now when you say a recorder box on the same package, I'm not quite sure what you mean?

I shall check out that Samsung, thanks!

 

[lucid]

Just some clarification... I don't currently have any Sky package. ........

Now when you say a recorder box on the same package, I'm not quite sure what you mean?

Ah, right. The way you wrote the OP could be interpreted a couple of ways. I took it that you already had a Sky package but wanted to avoid any additional costs.

In your case then forget about Sky boxes that record. You need to have an active subscription for the recording feature to work. If you're just using the Sky equivalent of Freesat then that's not an option.

 

[i know nothing]

Ah, right. The way you wrote the OP could be interpreted a couple of ways. I took it that you already had a Sky package but wanted to avoid any additional costs.

In your case then forget about Sky boxes that record. You need to have an active subscription for the recording feature to work. If you're just using the Sky equivalent of Freesat then that's not an option.

I don't mind paying a tenner or thereabouts, but I refuse to fork out £30+ a month for a Sky package. I do just fine with the freesat channels although I would like to get the freesat HD channels. And yes, Netflix (providing it's not too expensive) would be a nice option, that's plenty good enough for our household. The stop/pause/rewind feature and catch up thing interests me greatly, I believe these smart tv's allow that?

 

[lucid]

Pause/rewind/record live TV....... Many TVs now allow recording via to a memory stick plugged in to the TV's USB port. It doesn't have to be a Smart TV at all. My little lad's 19" bedroom TV does it. That's just a basic TV. There is a restriuction though. This only works from the TV's internal tuner (usually Freeview/Freeview HD) and not from external sources.

If you want these features then I'd suggest investigating Freesat or Freeview PVRs. These are the modern version of a VCR except they use a hard drive instead of tape. Humax is a good brand to look at. They have a range of boxes, most of which also include Smart features. More here: LINK

If you go for a recording Freesat box, and particularly if it has a TV live pause feature, then you'll need to swap from the single LNB to a Quad plus the cabling upgrade.

A Freeview HD TV with USB recording will offer some of the same basic features but may be limited to only recording the channel being watched. You'll need a TV aerial putting up for this.

A Humax (or other manufacturer's) Freeview PVR works off a single aerial feed but internally these boxes have two or more TV tuners. That's because Freeview works differently to satellite signals.


The "Smart" features in Smart TVs don't have anything to do with pausing and recording live TV.

Netflix costs £6.99 a month if you want both SD and HD content. This package allows you to watch two streams at the same time. £8.99/month gets you 4 streams. £5.99 a month limits you to one stream and only in standard definition, not HD. You can downgrade/upgrade at any time though.

As you probably know, the content is delivered over the 'net, so your internet usage will go up. If you're on a fixed data volume deal then there could be additional costs from your internet service provider. I can't see it being an issue with a fibre line such as yours, but it's still worth being aware of just in case.

 

[i know nothing]

Pause/rewind/record live TV....... Many TVs now allow recording via to a memory stick plugged in to the TV's USB port. It doesn't have to be a Smart TV at all. My little lad's 19" bedroom TV does it. That's just a basic TV. There is a restriuction though. This only works from the TV's internal tuner (usually Freeview/Freeview HD) and not from external sources.

If you want these features then I'd suggest investigating Freesat or Freeview PVRs. These are the modern version of a VCR except they use a hard drive instead of tape. Humax is a good brand to look at. They have a range of boxes, most of which also include Smart features. More here: LINK

If you go for a recording Freesat box, and particularly if it has a TV live pause feature, then you'll need to swap from the single LNB to a Quad plus the cabling upgrade.

A Freeview HD TV with USB recording will offer some of the same basic features but may be limited to only recording the channel being watched. You'll need a TV aerial putting up for this.

A Humax (or other manufacturer's) Freeview PVR works off a single aerial feed but internally these boxes have two or more TV tuners. That's because Freeview works differently to satellite signals.

You've got me thinking now. I suspect it will be cheaper for me to use my aerial (now that you've mentioned there's no such thing as a HD one) as opposed to me changing to a Quad LNB and laying new cable. EDIT: Need to check whether I want Freeview or Freesat first I guess.

What about this Lucid? http://www.sky.com/shop/freesat/home/#3 Apparently Sky don't promote it as they don't really want people going for it for obvious reasons. I'm thinking it might work out cheaper to get that and get them to install it?

The "Smart" features in Smart TVs don't have anything to do with pausing and recording live TV.

Glad you pointed that out, I thought they did!

Netflix costs £6.99 a month if you want both SD and HD content. This package allows you to watch two streams at the same time. £8.99/month gets you 4 streams. £5.99 a month limits you to one stream and only in standard definition, not HD. You can downgrade/upgrade at any time though.

£6.99 a month would be great, that I can accept.

As you probably know, the content is delivered over the 'net, so your internet usage will go up. If you're on a fixed data volume deal then there could be additional costs from your internet service provider. I can't see it being an issue with a fibre line such as yours, but it's still worth being aware of just in case.

I'll be okay, the new fibre broadband I have is unlimited.

I do have one other question though. Say I go for the Humax PVR, I see that has an input for TV aerial/satellite dish. It also has an input for the ethernet cable. So do you wire everything into the Humax PVR and then just run a HDMI cable to the TV? Like you would have done for a VCR? Or will I need to run another CAT6 cable from the hub to the TV as well? Or is the wifi enough for the TV?

 

[lucid]

You've got me thinking now. I suspect it will be cheaper for me to use my aerial (now that you've mentioned there's no such thing as a HD one) as opposed to me changing to a Quad LNB and laying new cable. EDIT: Need to check whether I want Freeview or Freesat first I guess.

What about this Lucid? http://www.sky.com/shop/freesat/home/#3 Apparently Sky don't promote it as they don't really want people going for it for obvious reasons. I'm thinking it might work out cheaper to get that and get them to install it?

I think you've got to weigh up the total cost based on what you really want. To date you've been doing fine with a live view Freesat service from Sky. Now you understand that pause/rewind/record isn't a function of Smart TV but of either a standalone PVR or the TV (within limits) then you can make a more informed choice. If it was me, I couldn't go back to not having pause/rew/rec, and the idea of only being able to record one channel at once just wouldn't acceptable; so some form of standalone recorder is a must as far as I'm concerned. The Sky Freesat package just wouldn't work for me, but you might have different priorities.

If I were in your shoes then I'd progress one step at a time. Get a decent TV which will probably be Smart by default and also very likely to include a Freeview HD tuner. Hook up the old Sky box and then also try connecting the TV aerial you've got (?) to see what results you get. Try the TV's PVR function over the course of a week or so and see if you can live with it. Compare Freeview (+PVR) to Freesat via Sky from your old Sky box both in terms of the range of channels and SD channel quality. Then look at the cost of PVRs plus any aerial/satellite work to get the full benefit.

I do have one other question though. Say I go for the Humax PVR, I see that has an input for TV aerial/satellite dish. It also has an input for the ethernet cable. So do you wire everything into the Humax PVR and then just run a HDMI cable to the TV? Like you would have done for a VCR? Or will I need to run another CAT6 cable from the hub to the TV as well? Or is the wifi enough for the TV?

That's not easy to answer because there's some unknown variables.

Ideally you'd have an Ethernet connection to each device. That guarantees a consistently fast connection compared to the average for Wi-Fi. The issues for Wi-Fi are contention (how many devices are hanging off the wireless network at the same time), data packets (the overhead from parcelling up data to move it wirelessly) and range. If I had (and was paying for) fibre broadband in to the house then I'd do everything I could to ensure that the speed within my own network was as good as possible. With that in mind I'd avoid wireless unless absolutely necessary. What you might find though is that the PVR Smart features are as good as the TV, so you rarely use the TV Smart features and so there's not much need for an Ethernet connection to the telly.

 

[i know nothing]

If I were in your shoes then I'd progress one step at a time. Get a decent TV which will probably be Smart by default and also very likely to include a Freeview HD tuner. Hook up the old Sky box and then also try connecting the TV aerial you've got (?) to see what results you get. Try the TV's PVR function over the course of a week or so and see if you can live with it. Compare Freeview (+PVR) to Freesat via Sky from your old Sky box both in terms of the range of channels and SD channel quality. Then look at the cost of PVRs plus any aerial/satellite work to get the full benefit.

Yes, I'm in agreement with you here, that certainly sounds like the sensible way of going about it. As you say, I can always add a PVR if I so desire.

That's not easy to answer because there's some unknown variables.

Ideally you'd have an Ethernet connection to each device. That guarantees a consistently fast connection compared to the average for Wi-Fi. The issues for Wi-Fi are contention (how many devices are hanging off the wireless network at the same time), data packets (the overhead from parcelling up data to move it wirelessly) and range. If I had (and was paying for) fibre broadband in to the house then I'd do everything I could to ensure that the speed within my own network was as good as possible. With that in mind I'd avoid wireless unless absolutely necessary. What you might find though is that the PVR Smart features are as good as the TV, so you rarely use the TV Smart features and so there's not much need for an Ethernet connection to the telly.

One of the reasons I laid the cable from the hub to the TV point was because a friend of mine had told me the same thing. Even the BT engineer who installed it recommended running a cable to avoid any 'issues'. It's not like I can't do it again either, I can rip the carpet up and lay another if needs be. I don't have an awful lot connected via the wifi, this laptop, printer (hardly used) and 2 mobile phones, I can see the children having tablets/ipads at some stage in the future.

 

[lucid]

If you get a TV with Netflix then you'll be in a perfect position to compare wired to wireless speed. You may find that wireless is enough most of the time... or that wireless is hopeless all the time for streaming... or it's okay some parts of the day but rubbish at others. That's the nature of wireless; it's individual to each site and what's happening re the usage patterns and local interference.

If the future for you is a TV and PVR which both happen to be Smart, then I predict that you'll only use one at a time and that you'll have a favourite device. In that case put the wired connection to that one.

There are other options such as a Gigabit data switch which means you could share the wired connect between 2 or more devices. This will still be faster than each having its own wireless connection.

 

[i know nothing]

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions Lucid, I appreciate it. Cheers!