Whey Protein and not Training
- Thread starter hitman47
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Soldato
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AFAIK excess protein tends to do 1 of few things :
a) you will chuck it out of your back end
b) it will come out of your poors (sweat glands)
c) will turn to waste and body fat will increase
a) you will chuck it out of your back end
b) it will come out of your poors (sweat glands)
c) will turn to waste and body fat will increase
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Depending on your genetics, you will slowly / quickly put on weight if you are taking in the same amount of calories as when training. Most of this weight will be fat.
what exactly do you think whey protein is? its just proteinhitman47 said:Hey guys,
What would happen (and why) to an average guy who doesn't weight train but starts supplementing his diet with the same whey protein that body builders use?
Cheers peeps
you could say what would happen if someone started eating a lot more fish chicken and beef, same thing
Malarkee said:Wrong, a lot of it gets crapped out but your body can turn some amino acids into fat.
Protein/muscle turning to fat is a simplistic myth, propagated by those that see body-builders and professional sports men filling out once they stop training. In 99% of cases the athlete in question is enjoying eating what they like and when they like after years of strict dieting to achieve a specific goal.
I don't doubt that there are metabolic processes that could take place to convert some amino acids to fat but in the vast majority of people this isn't going to happen.
As A2Z points out, just eat more meat, its far superior to whey anywhey......hahaha
/gets coat(except post work out before people start getting pedantic!
)
MTA99 said:Protein/muscle turning to fat is a simplistic myth, propagated by those that see body-builders and professional sports men filling out once they stop training. In 99% of cases the athlete in question is enjoying eating what they like and when they like after years of strict dieting to achieve a specific goal.
I don't doubt that there are metabolic processes that could take place to convert some amino acids to fat but in the vast majority of people this isn't going to happen.
As A2Z points out, just eat more meat, its far superior to whey anywhey......hahaha gets coat
(except post work out before people start getting pedantic!
Muscle doesn't turn into fat, I know that... I know that a lot of fat ex body builders get like that because they are used to eating that many kcals and continue to do so.
Forget that. We're not talking about muscle cells here... that's not what you drink in whey powder...
(though I'm guessing you knew that )Your body can metabolise some Amino Acids and store them as Fatty Acids... it's not a myth... your body won't break muscle down and store it as fat but if your are downing whey shake after whey shake and giving your body more than it needs it's not gonna simply **** it all out.
Some are converted to fat, some to sugars, it's that simple
we're not designed to eat the way we eat... our body's don't like waste... some of those calories will get stored.
Some of it is turned into creatine phosphate and stored with in the muscles, some of the amino acids can be turned into fatty acids.
Fat is simply stored and carbs are broken down and stored as glycogen. Bottom line is that we will try to store nutrients, especially those containing calories in some way or another because we are hunter gathers... we didn't have ready access to three meals a day... maybe not even a week.
Just berries and wheat etc my friend...
as for getting fat once you stop training... yeah... I had it happen to be... for a year I was labouring on a building site and doing some pretty intense conditioning for my boxing in the evenings most days... I stopped both for a month and gained a ridiculous amount of weight cos I just kept eating...
Morba said:
No I read it, I just understood it...
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Malarkee said:
Ok I'll admit I'm no biological scientist but aren't we taking about a rather specific set of conditions whereby protein/amino acids are converted to fat to be stored? Am I correct in assuming that you'd have to firstly consume and excess of calories, second you'd have to have a pretty high protein intake (so that all processes involving protein for repair/growth would be saturated) and that your fat intake would have to be low (why metabolise amino acids, an expensive process in energy terms, if you have fat readily available?)?
If the OP has a "normal" diet and doesn't go mad with the shakes, wouldn't his body use the protein for general repair and maintenance?
Malarkee said:
That doesn't make sense
MTA99 said:
If he has a normal diet he isn't going to be taking protein supplements whilst he isn't training though is he?
When you're taking whey powder on top of a normal healthy diet with meat in it than like you said you will have a high protein intake. Especially when you're not training... you're body isn't going to have as high a use for the nutrients.
I'm not demonising protein or whey powder or anything like that, just talking about what a high protein intake whilst not training and eating normally will do
It's not too taxing on the body or anything to store it, we're very efficient at storing nutrients... hence why there are so many fat people...
hunter gathers, evolution etcChickens have a tiny amount of fat on them because of how they have evolved/been created (not gonna get into this debate but the point remains either way) they always have access to grains etc, they don't need to store anything.
We don't really need as much protein as a lot of us eat... even those of us that train do tend to over saturate themselves with it... it's a very important nutrient for any one... especially those who train or are extremely active, but it's only part of the picture.
My take on the OP is that you don't need supplements if you aren't training and live a normal life style... they are called supplements because they are just that... what you need is a normal, sensible diet which will provide you with the nutrients you need for today's average lifestyle.
You only need to supplement things like protein when you are doing an activity which is going to make your body need more of that nutrient.
The whole point of a supplement is that it tops up what you already intake from your food... because you don't need it all you're going to do is
a) have smelly farts
b) turn it into sugar or fat
c) either intake more calories or replace better ones such as carbs and fat with an inefficient.
because once you're a fully grown adult... unless you are ill or injured or something you are not going to be using the extra from the suppliments for repair or maintanance.
To put it simply...
Person A:
Consumes 2500 calories per day
Burns 2500 calories per day
The result = He neither gains nor loses weight
Person B:
Consumes 2500 calories per day
Burns 2500 calories per day
Drinks 4 whey protein shakes equating to an extra 500 calories per day
The result = He gains weight
Lets take a closer look at what happens in the body when you consume protein via any form, be it whole foods or as a whey protein supplement:-
1. It gets broken down into building blocks known as peptides.
2. It gets broken down further and becomes amino acids.
3. The amino acids are absorbed through the small intestine's lining and enter the blood stream.
4. From here, some of the amino acids build the body's protein stores.
5. Any excess amino acids are converted to fats and sugars and can be stored as fat if they are not required.
Whether you are training or not is irrelevant. It is simply down to how much of a calorific excess you are in. Consider this:
Person A:
Consumes 2500 calories per day
Burns 2500 calories per day
The result = He neither gains nor loses weight
Person B:
Consumes 2000 calories per day
Burns 2500 calories per day
Drinks 4 whey protein shakes equating to an extra 500 calories per day
The result = He neither gains nor loses weight. Why? Because his total calorific intake matches his total energy expenditure.
Granted, this is grossly oversimplified. There are many other factors such as insulin spikes that can effect this but it should give you a basic understanding.
Hope that helps
Person A:
Consumes 2500 calories per day
Burns 2500 calories per day
The result = He neither gains nor loses weight
Person B:
Consumes 2500 calories per day
Burns 2500 calories per day
Drinks 4 whey protein shakes equating to an extra 500 calories per day
The result = He gains weight
Lets take a closer look at what happens in the body when you consume protein via any form, be it whole foods or as a whey protein supplement:-
1. It gets broken down into building blocks known as peptides.
2. It gets broken down further and becomes amino acids.
3. The amino acids are absorbed through the small intestine's lining and enter the blood stream.
4. From here, some of the amino acids build the body's protein stores.
5. Any excess amino acids are converted to fats and sugars and can be stored as fat if they are not required.
Whether you are training or not is irrelevant. It is simply down to how much of a calorific excess you are in. Consider this:
Person A:
Consumes 2500 calories per day
Burns 2500 calories per day
The result = He neither gains nor loses weight
Person B:
Consumes 2000 calories per day
Burns 2500 calories per day
Drinks 4 whey protein shakes equating to an extra 500 calories per day
The result = He neither gains nor loses weight. Why? Because his total calorific intake matches his total energy expenditure.
Granted, this is grossly oversimplified. There are many other factors such as insulin spikes that can effect this but it should give you a basic understanding.
Hope that helps
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Malarkee said:If he has a normal diet he isn't going to be taking protein supplements whilst he isn't training though is he?
When you're taking whey powder on top of a normal healthy diet with meat in it than like you said you will have a high protein intake. Especially when you're not training... you're body isn't going to have as high a use for the nutrients.
You've got to realise that "most" people don't see protein intake as important as those of us how strive for greater lean muscle mass. It doesn't figure in every meal, it'll only be eaten with an evening meal and often only a couple of times a week or small portions. Therefore *in my opinion* added a shake to a "normal diet" will probably add the protein needed for repair/maintenance NOT make it high protein.
Malarkee said:
I understand your point but its not a very good example. Think the evolution of PizzaHut has more to do with fat people!!
The point I raised was that energically, protein costs more to break down and store than either carbs or fat. Is the body going to use energy to process protein into fat (any idea what %age can be converted) if its getting a steady supply of carbs and fat from the rest of the diet?
Malarkee said:
Humans can do the same. I eat 5-6times a day, high protein intake and I'm pretty lean. Ok I train and watch what I eat but there's nothing particularly special about the chicken. Look at any animal! The difference between a fat human and a lean chicken is the human eats because the food is there, the chicken eats cos its hungry!
Malarkee said:
Again its a question of "normal diet".
GordyR said:
So why eat protein if you're trying to gain lean muscle? Surely if I train I'm damaging the fibres in my muscles and these need repairing with amino acids? Given exactly the same diet, I do 500cals of low intensity cardio on one day, then 500cals of weights the next, wouldn't more of the protein be required for repair and growth than the day of cardio?
All this aside, the point I'm making is that if the "guy" in the original post has 1 shake a day "that body builders use" (an extra ~30gms and ~125cals to his "normal" diet), he won't get fat nor will he turn into Ronnie Coleman!
to be honest MTA I think we are both on the same page, we're just talking about whey supplementation and protein in different instances.
From what I got the OP is about a normal diet with protein shakes on top of it living a healthy lifestyle. Despite all my waffling my main point is that that protein as part of the normal diet isn't going to get stored... it'll replace good food but if it is part of the diet then it'll be used.
On top of a diet... so with an extra calories and protein... most of it excess, it'll be stored, either as fat, sugar or proteins
What effect that has depends on how big the excess is.
From what I got the OP is about a normal diet with protein shakes on top of it living a healthy lifestyle. Despite all my waffling my main point is that that protein as part of the normal diet isn't going to get stored... it'll replace good food but if it is part of the diet then it'll be used.
On top of a diet... so with an extra calories and protein... most of it excess, it'll be stored, either as fat, sugar or proteins
What effect that has depends on how big the excess is.
MTA99 said:
Yep thats exactly right. If you are training, your body does indeed need a higher amount of protein for repair. Remember though that all that training is burning calories. You need to eat enough calories to cover the energy expenditure of the exercising and then on top of that have enough extra calories to cause the body to need to "store" some. And lastly, a high enough proportion of you calorofic intake needs to be protein so that the body can repair your damaged muscles and go on to induce a hypertrophic state.
MTA99 said:All this aside, the point I'm making is that if the "guy" in the original post has 1 shake a day "that body builders use" (an extra ~30gms and ~125cals to his "normal" diet), he won't get fat nor will he turn into Ronnie Coleman!
And you're absolutely correct there mate.
Let me rephrase what a said earlier to avoid confusion though.
Person A:
Eats 2500 calories per day
Burns 2500 calories per day
Drinks 500 calories worth of protein shakes per day
Result = He gains weight.
Not because of the protein specifically, but simply because overall he is consuming more calories (3000) than his body is using (2500). Whether it is the protein or the real food that puts him over that limit, does not matter.
If that same guy was weight training then yes his body would require more protein in order to rebuild and repair his damaged muscles. Therefore some of those extra 500 calories would be used up in that process. But if that was the case then he would actually be burning more than 2500 calories per day.
Like this:
Person A:
- Eats 2500 calories of whole food per day
- Burns 2500 calories from sitting on his backside all day
- Drinks 500 calories worth of protein shakes per day
- Works out and burns 200 further calories, 300 more calories are used to repair his damaged muscles
The result, He neither loses nore gains weight.
In this scenario the formula is slightly different. Person A is consuming a total of 3000 calories, and his body is also burning 3000 calories, be it through exercise or through the bodies need for repair. If the guy had eaten say an extra 300 calories on top of this then he would gain weight. Since he had worked out and consumed enough protein so support hypertrophy he would like gain a higher ratio of muscle than fat. As the calorific excess increases so will the weight gain.
The bottom line is, Proteins are energy, carbs are energy, fats are energy. If we intake more energy than we expend we gain weight. Simple as that.
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