which AV receiver

[gareth170]

Pioneer VSX330 or DENON AVRX520BT.

i'm thinking about getting the DENON AVRX520BT because it as 2 subs out, 2 Optical Outputs, Bluetooth

but the Pioneer VSX330 looks good because it's 105w per channel. but only a 1 sub out, 1 Optical Output

 

[Marsman]

Why do so many people have the idea that more must be better when it comes to wattage output.

Anyway; the Pioneer is rated at 105W into 6 Ohms, whereas the Denon is rated as 70W into 8 Ohms if going by specs on Richer Sounds.

In layman's terms; the higher the Ohm rating means that the wattage output is less.

Therefore if the Pioneer was rated into 8 Ohms, rather than 6, the output would probably be similar to the Denon.

Always go for features over the wattage power output.

 

[james.miller]

they are both pretty poorly rated but par for the course at that price bracket.

the pioneer might be rated at 105w but that's one channel driven at 1% distortion. It's only rated at 165w consumption so whatever it does has to fit inside that envelope. 5 channels driven, i wouldnt be surprised if that drops to 25w per channel or less and still at 1% distortion or more.

The Denon is rated at 310w consumption - i wouldnt be suprised if it outperformed the Pioneer comfortably.

Either way, the denon would be my choice. More features, and probably a better quality amp anyway.

 

[gareth170]

i think the Denon amp is 6-16 Ohms also.. looking on the back.

i can only spend £230

 

[gareth170]

just ordered the DENON AVRX520BT

i asked a guy at Richer Sounds if my 4-8 Ohms speakers work on it without overheating the amp and he said yes they'll be fine because the speaker can handle anything between 4-8 Ohms so it'll run at the amp spec 6 Ohms minimum. but I'm not sure if thats true what he's sayng. so i may just use my 8 Ohms speakers..

 

[Marsman]

I think it's a good choice, especially if it's got the features you need.

You have more than one set then if you have 4 and 8 Ohm speakers?

If you use 4 Ohm speakers, then although it does say 6-16 Ohm on the receiver, it should power them fine as long as you don't over stress the receiver by turning the volume up too much. As long as you don't have the volume so loud you hit distortion, you should be OK.

 

[hornetstinger]

Those power ratings are inflated. That Pioneer is 105W into 6 ohm, 1 channel driven, 1khz 1% THD. That is lousy. You'll find real power output to be no greater than 33W per channel, all channels driven- if you're lucky.

The Denon fairs better Power Output (6 ohm, 1 kHz, 0.7% 2ch Drive) 90 W. In real use, it will be around 66W per channel all channels driven.

FYI the amps I use are 200W per channel, all channels driven, full range 20hz-20khz, 0.03% THD, with SNR of 120dB

 

[gareth170]

Those power ratings are inflated. That Pioneer is 105W into 6 ohm, 1 channel driven, 1khz 1% THD. That is lousy. You'll find real power output to be no greater than 33W per channel, all channels driven- if you're lucky.

The Denon fairs better Power Output (6 ohm, 1 kHz, 0.7% 2ch Drive) 90 W. In real use, it will be around 66W per channel all channels driven.

FYI the amps I use are 200W per channel, all channels driven, full range 20hz-20khz, 0.03% THD, with SNR of 120dB

the demon amp manuel says this,

Output Power (8 ohms, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.08% to THD, 2-channel operation) 70 W
Output Power (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.7% THD, 2-channel operation) 90 W
Output Power (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 1% THD, 1-channel operation) 130 W
Output Power (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 10% THD, 1-channel operation) 140 W

i'll be running 8 ohms speakers so it'll 70w

 

[hornetstinger]

But that's for 2 speakers. It's a av amplifier, not a stereo amp, so you'll be powering several speakers as once. 70W is a plenty for 2 channel and that rating is good, low THD, full range but you have three more speakers, so you'll find it's less than 70W with all channels driven.

 

[gareth170]

I think it's a good choice, especially if it's got the features you need.

You have more than one set then if you have 4 and 8 Ohm speakers?

If you use 4 Ohm speakers, then although it does say 6-16 Ohm on the receiver, it should power them fine as long as you don't over stress the receiver by turning the volume up too much. As long as you don't have the volume so loud you hit distortion, you should be OK.

i have 1 pair of speakers at say 4-8 ohms which i wanted to use for the front speakers but if 4-8 ohms means they 4 ohms then i won't use them, but going by the guy, 4-8 ohms means the speaker can be ran at anything between 4-8 ohms

i have another 2 pair of speakers + center speaker that are all 8 ohms

 

[gareth170]

But that's for 2 speakers. It's a av amplifier, not a stereo amp, so you'll be powering several speakers as once. 70W is a plenty for 2 channel and that rating is good, low THD, full range but you have three more speakers, so you'll find it's less than 70W with all channels driven.

Front:



70 W + 70 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz – 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)



90 W + 90 W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)



Cen*ter:



70 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz – 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)



90 W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)



Sur*round:



70 W + 70 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz – 20 kHz with 0.08 % T.H.D.)



90 W + 90 W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7 % T.H.D.)



Out*put con*nec*tors:


6 – 16 Ω/ohms

http://manuals.denon.com/AVRX520BT/EU/EN/GFNFSYbsjxinov.php

does this mean theres 5 separate amps?

 

[hornetstinger]

AV amplifiers have several power amplifiers inside them, yes. Usually 5, but could be 7, or 9, maybe more for a high end av amp.

Problem is with those figures 70W it means into that channel, not all channels at once. It won't be 70W x 5.

 

[gareth170]

ok. well i'll test it when i receive it tomorrow, if it's crap, i'll send it back.

 

[james.miller]

Gareth, it's like this; multi channel amps are pretty much universally built to a budget. They are a compromise. For AV amps, and this includes those over a thousand quid and not just entry level kit, one of the most commonly seen areas of compromise is the power supply and amp section. Driving lots of channels with lots of wattage and low distortion requires big beefy op amps, lots of heatsink to keep them cool and a big big power transformer to supply the current and voltage required. Av amps often dont have a power supply manly enough to do that. So, whilst the output into a single channel looks pretty healthy, it can nosedive when your looking at 5 or 7 channels driven because the power supply just cant keep up with the demand. Power supplies arent the only area compromised but you get the point.

The real question is does it matter? If you've got a half decent set of sensitive speakers, then it might not. If your surrounds are satellites and not full range floor standards then again, it might not matter, since the major of energy used is used to produce the bass notes and not the mid/upper end of the spectrum.

What amp are you using now? This will give you a good gauge on whether the denon will have enough power or not.

i asked a guy at Richer Sounds if my 4-8 Ohms speakers work on it without overheating the amp and he said yes they'll be fine because the speaker can handle anything between 4-8 Ohms so it'll run at the amp spec 6 Ohms minimum. but I'm not sure if thats true what he's sayng. so i may just use my 8 Ohms speakers..

He's wrong. The speakers present the load to the amp, not the other way around. So it's the speakers that produce a 4-8ohm load on the amp and it's the amps job to deal with that. Denon don't rate the amp at 4ohms at all, so clearly it's current-limited (low ohms, or 'impedance' requires more current, high impedance requires more voltage) so the advice really is it's not recommended to pair the amp with 4ohm speakers, but unofficially it'll probably be ok.

 

[gareth170]

The real question is does it matter? If you've got a half decent set of sensitive speakers, then it might not. If your surrounds are satellites and not full range floor standards then again, it might not matter, since the major of energy used is used to produce the bass notes and not the mid/upper end of the spectrum.

What amp are you using now? This will give you a good gauge on whether the denon will have enough power or not.

at the moment I'm using a samsung ht-f4500 home cinema system (it's not a AV amp as such, but I've got everything playing though it.) due my old cheap amp dead a year a go.. but tbh the sound from the ht-f4500 is really good which surprised me.

do you think the DENON AVRX520BT be better than the samsung ht-f4500 home cinema system?

anyway i have 5 satellites speakers at are 8ohms that I'm planning to use.. i also have bk subs

 

[Marsman]

You've said the set of satellite speakers you have are 8 Ohm, so I assume they are not the ones that came with the Samsung system?

Just making sure, because the speakers that come with the Samsung are 3 Ohm and no use for connecting to an AV receiver.

Quite frankly, I'll be amazed if the Denon isn't better. Unless I'm mistaken, that whole Samsung system can be bought for less than £200. That's including the 5 satellites and a passive subwoofer, which means the amplifier is having to power that as well. That's a whole package for less than what the Denon AV receiver costs by itself, and that doesn't have to power the subwoofer as well as the speakers, unlike the Samsung.

 

[Jano]

It'll be far better than the home cinema system, but like Marsman has mentioned, please do not even attempt to use the Samsung's speakers with it, somethings likely to go pop rather quickly.

 

[gareth170]

You've said the set of satellite speakers you have are 8 Ohm, so I assume they are not the ones that came with the Samsung system?

It'll be far better than the home cinema system, but like Marsman has mentioned, please do not even attempt to use the Samsung's speakers with it, somethings likely to go pop rather quickly.

no i know the samsung speakers are 3 ohms, . i have other satellite speakers that are 8 Ohms

 

[hornetstinger]

Once you start connecting 4 ohm speakers I would recommend higher range AVR, or dedicated amplifiers.

That's why I went for dedicated amplifiers as the stereo speakers I use are 4 ohm, as are the ones in the home cinema.