"whitewashing" garbage

Vonhelmet · 1 Sep 2017 at 10:41

That's bad writing, nothing to do with her being a woman.

azazl187 · 1 Sep 2017 at 10:42

String said:
Can she be absolutely clear it was racism that held her back? That's a very important assumption that is being made, unless I'm missing some evidence?

I dont get why this is a problem. If Hollywood are not looking for an Asian actor then why would they employ someone with a surname of Chang? Are Hollywood producers and Directors not allowed to make these decisions anymore?

azazl187 · 1 Sep 2017 at 10:42

Vonhelmet said:
That's bad writing, nothing to do with her being a woman.

I completely agree, as i said in my post.

x-st · 1 Sep 2017 at 10:44

azazl187 said:
So you thought the way she was able to instantly use a light sabre to fight off Kylo Ren a trained fighter wasnt jarring.... I mean she had the force but come on! The way she instantly was able to do things in that movie was just crazy.

"oh ive played around with a few ships but this Millennium Falcon is easy to fly and fix!" I know this has nothing to do with a female cast but this movie was just ridiculous

As you say it seems you had more issues with plot than gender. I'd argue that gender is mostly irrelevant in those films. The fact both Rogue One and Force Awakens had female leads (although they were both very ensemble based) didn't have any impact upon them at all, and certainly didn't have an impact upon diminishing the story/plot/spectacle. Leia was always a strong character in the original trilogy too.

Edit - Also a TV series like Quantico has a strong, non-white female lead and a mixed race cast and that didn't feel at all like it was done for the sake of equality.

Vonhelmet · 1 Sep 2017 at 10:47

azazl187 said:
I dont get why this is a problem. If Hollywood are not looking for an Asian actor then why would they employ someone with a surname of Chang? Are Hollywood producers and Directors not allowed to make these decisions anymore?

She's hardly the most Asian looking of actresses, so yes, I'd say it's racist that they didn't employ her when her name was Chang but they did when it was Bennet.

FortuitousFluke · 1 Sep 2017 at 10:52

azazl187 said:
I dont get why this is a problem. If Hollywood are not looking for an Asian actor then why would they employ someone with a surname of Chang? Are Hollywood producers and Directors not allowed to make these decisions anymore?

If that were the case then changing her name wouldn't have had any impact.

VincentHanna · 1 Sep 2017 at 10:54

FortuitousFluke said:
The reasons for this probably don't boil down to casting directors not liking Asians as much as people with Asian/Jewish/African etc names not being seen as marketable.

I think I would agreed with that assessment.

azazl187 said:
I dont get why this is a problem. If Hollywood are not looking for an Asian actor then why would they employ someone with a surname of Chang? Are Hollywood producers and Directors not allowed to make these decisions anymore?

She looks like this

396055bb4cc787c1ad400de3bb27e229--cloe-bennet-chloe-bennet-hot.jpg

Sure there are roles that wouldn't be suitable for her (White trailer trash), but in general there's more roles that would be...

Vonhelmet · 1 Sep 2017 at 11:01

Hot AF, pretty castable I'd say. Oh wait, her name is Chang? Gtfo.

VincentHanna · 1 Sep 2017 at 11:01

azazl187 said:
So you thought the way she was able to instantly use a light sabre to fight off Kylo Ren a trained fighter wasnt jarring.... I mean she had the force but come on! The way she instantly was able to do things in that movie was just crazy.

"oh ive played around with a few ships but this Millennium Falcon is easy to fly and fix!" I know this has nothing to do with a female cast but this movie was just ridiculous

It's Star Wars...

Phantom Menace has a kid destroying a droid control station in a spaceship, which he can apparently do because he piloted a pod-racer....

In 'A New Hope' we get some throwaway dialogue that Luke fly's around Beggars canyon a bit, and he's suddenly the best pilot they have at the end of the original film

In Empire Strikes back Luke managed to Force-pull his lightsaber out of the snow without any training...

It's always been ludicrous. It's Sci-fi.

azazl187 · 1 Sep 2017 at 11:05

VincentHanna said:
It's Star Wars...

Phantom Menace has a kid destroying a droid control station in a spaceship, which he can apparently do because he piloted a pod-racer....

In 'A New Hope' we get some throwaway dialogue that Luke fly's around Beggars canyon a bit, and he's suddenly the best pilot they have at the end of the original film

In Empire Strikes back Luke managed to Force-pull his lightsaber out of the snow without any training...

It's always been ludicrous. It's Sci-fi.

Maybe its because i cant get past the fact shes a girl?! Maybe im the very thing that is wrong with this whole thread!?

VincentHanna · 1 Sep 2017 at 11:07

Maybe.

Or maybe you were less objective about Star Wars as a kid compared to now?

azazl187 · 1 Sep 2017 at 11:08

Vonhelmet said:
She's hardly the most Asian looking of actresses, so yes, I'd say it's racist that they didn't employ her when her name was Chang but they did when it was Bennet.

How do we even know that they even looked at her picture? Maybe they just saw the name and were like "she probably looks Asian so shes not right for the role"

These people must get literally hundreds of people sending in "CVs" for a role. How do we not know they just skim the names first and then work on what is left as they simply do not have time to look at everyone?

azazl187 · 1 Sep 2017 at 11:10

VincentHanna said:
Maybe.

Or maybe you were less objective about Star Wars as a kid compared to now?

But put a futuristic god of war in some Space Marine power armour and talk about smiting Chaos gods in space and im sold

VincentHanna · 1 Sep 2017 at 11:11

azazl187 said:
How do we even know that they even looked at her picture? Maybe they just saw the name and were like "she probably looks Asian so shes not right for the role"

According to her, she was already at the audition stage so they would have seen what she looks like.

Very weird.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/agents-of-shields-chloe-bennet-why-i-stopped-using-my-chinese-last-name

Dis86 · 1 Sep 2017 at 11:12

Vonhelmet said:
She's hardly the most Asian looking of actresses, so yes, I'd say it's racist that they didn't employ her when her name was Chang but they did when it was Bennet.

But they may not have known what she looked like if they were just flicking through cvs or whatever? An assumption in their part, sure, but you can understand why they made it.

Vonhelmet · 1 Sep 2017 at 11:17

VincentHanna said:
It's Star Wars...

Phantom Menace has a kid destroying a droid control station in a spaceship, which he can apparently do because he piloted a pod-racer....

In 'A New Hope' we get some throwaway dialogue that Luke fly's around Beggars canyon a bit, and he's suddenly the best pilot they have at the end of the original film

In Empire Strikes back Luke managed to Force-pull his lightsaber out of the snow without any training...

It's always been ludicrous. It's Sci-fi.

Star Wars isn't really sci fi. It's fantasy in space. The force is magic.

Dis86 · 1 Sep 2017 at 11:19

FortuitousFluke said:
Not at all, I completely understand why producers would feel the need to mandate that a film like Deathnote be moved to a western setting, and I think you're right the setting of a film and potentially the race of its cast (not necessarily individual characters but entire casts certainly) has an impact on whether or not people will go and watch it. Having said that films like Crouching Tiger do suggest that this isn't always the case.

I still think it's a bad reason for moving the setting though, especially since it's had a negative effect in my opinion on what the film could have been (and keep in mind I've never seen the anime etc so that's not a factor for me). The way the film is shot and the general tone would have been a brilliant fit for a Japanese setting, especially Tokyo. At what point does the creative damage of pandering to the audience in a quest for ratings overrule the benefit of doing so, what's more relevant, having a commercial success or a critical one? It's a fine line certainly.

The problem with this kind of re-imagining is that, unless audiences are given the option of experiencing an adaptation involving the true setting, then they'll never adapt (if a period of adaptation is needed). It's a chicken and the egg scenario, big studios can't throw out AAA films that take these kind of risks if they can't be sure that people will watch, we won't know if people will watch/people won't gradually embrace the changes unless we create the relevant AAA content.

I get the concerns, but part of me thinks if your film is good people will watch regardless of the setting and race of cast members.

Your last point is nonsense, Bollywood films are inherently culturally Indian and as such should retain that cultural identity, it's exactly the case I was making for not moving the setting of certain films.

My last point is pertient. Hollywood is culturally white (Jewish?) And we are clearly seeing people expect that to change so why shouldn't Bollywood?

I must admit that while Rogue One is probably my favourite star wars I had no problem with the female lead however I did in ep7. Daisy whatsherface was clearly cast purely because she's a female and has a certain look. She is a terrible actress. I also thought John boyega was a naff choice as he again isn't a great actor. The chap that plays Po on the other hand is great.

FortuitousFluke · 1 Sep 2017 at 11:26

Dis86 said:
My last point is pertient. Hollywood is culturally white (Jewish?) And we are clearly seeing people expect that to change so why shouldn't Bollywood?

I must admit that while Rogue One is probably my favourite star wars I had no problem with the female lead however I did in ep7. Daisy whatsherface was clearly cast purely because she's a female and has a certain look. She is a terrible actress. I also thought John boyega was a naff choice as he again isn't a great actor. The chap that plays Po on the other hand is great.

But you weren't quoting people, you were quoting me, and I am absolutely not calling for wholesale change in any shape or form. I'm calling for culturally and creatively appropriate decisions alongside a push to encourage diversity in cinema through organic means.

In other news I quite rate John Boyega, not sure he was given much to work with in Episode 7. The actor playing Poe I also like, hoping for more of him in the next film, possibly a bit of frat boy bromance between Poe and Finn.

VincentHanna · 1 Sep 2017 at 11:28

Dis86 said:
My last point is pertient. Hollywood is culturally white (Jewish?) And we are clearly seeing people expect that to change so why shouldn't Bollywood?

I must admit that while Rogue One is probably my favourite star wars I had no problem with the female lead however I did in ep7. Daisy whatsherface was clearly cast purely because she's a female and has a certain look. She is a terrible actress. I also thought John boyega was a naff choice as he again isn't a great actor. The chap that plays Po on the other hand is great.

Whereas Mark Hamill was what, Oscar worthy?

Watch John Boyega in 'Detroit' - Great performance.

Dirk Diggler · 1 Sep 2017 at 11:35

VincentHanna said:
She said as soon as she changed her name, she started getting roles

You said - (Paraphrasing) "Could just be co-incidence"

I'd say that is extremely unlikely.

The accusation is racism. While there is apparent evidence that a stage name improved things for her, as it has for countless others, I don't see any evidence of racial motivation.

How many roles did she receive pre-name change, and how many post-name change? What were the nature of these roles in terms of ethnicity i.e. were all the roles before the change solely for parts that encompassed Asian characters?

This isn't evidence of racism, it's conjecture.