Who can mansplain...

[Noughtboy]

How is it that some Euro6 diesel cars are not ULEZ compliant and some Euro 5 are?

On Autotrader, saw a Volvo S60 with Euro 6 with the ULEZ site telling me ULEZ chargeable Volvo S60.

and an Alfa Giulietta with Euro 5 that was compliant Alfa Giulietta

Flummoxed.

 

[Semple]

I don't believe it's a general euro 5 = no, euro 6 = yes. But measured based on the emission values. It's the way some smaller cars that are euro 5 have been able to get exemptions because their emissions are less.

 

[GhostWKD]

Is it not correlated to emissions? Specifically Nitrogen & Particulate levels? My McLaren & older Clio are all good because of that (always used to find it weird that in Birmingham my Ferrari 360 was fine but my Integra DC5 was not)

 

[[TW]Fox]

I don't believe it's a general euro 5 = no, euro 6 = yes.

Actually I think it is this simple, the problem is the data quality isn't very good.

Euro 6 was a requirement for all new registrations from September 2015 - but there are many cars older than this which meet the requirements in full because they are Euro 6 compliant. Some of the tools for checking the status take this into account, some do not.

 

[Noughtboy]

Actually I think it is this simple, the problem is the data quality isn't very good.

Euro 6 was a requirement for all new registrations from September 2015 - but there are many cars older than this which meet the requirements in full because they are Euro 6 compliant. Some of the tools for checking the status take this into account, some do not.

How can it be that simple when the two examples (possibly outliers but nonetheless) disprove that? I haven't got more examples as yet merely because I have summarily discarded anything with a Euro5 but there may be further examples.

 

[[TW]Fox]

The rules are, regardless of what any tool to check might tell you, quite simple:

Ways to meet the standard

Find out how to meet the emissions standards of ULEZ

tfl.gov.uk

The ULEZ standards are:

• Euro 3 for motorcycles, mopeds, motorised tricycles and quadricycles (L category)
• Euro 4 (NOx) for petrol cars, vans, minibuses and other specialist vehicles
• Euro 6 (NOx and PM) for diesel cars, vans and minibuses and other specialist vehicles

 

[Yaayuh!]

Both of those cars are ULEZ compliant. At least that's what CarWow and Motorway says.

ULEZ Check – Check if Your Car Is ULEZ Compliant | carwow

carwow’s free ULEZ checker uses your vehicle’s registration to tell you if your vehicle is compliant and whether you’ll need to pay the ULEZ charge

www.carwow.co.uk

Free ULEZ Checker: Check Your Vehicle Compliance | Motorway

London's ULEZ is expanding on 29th August 2023. Use our free ULEZ checker to find out if your car meets the emissions standards.

motorway.co.uk

 

[Noughtboy]

@[TW]Fox perhaps you can explain this then. On the TFL site, the 2014 Volvo above is NOT compliant despite being Euro 6. On Motorway ULEZ it is telling me it is. To help you along, reg BU14 LBE

 

[jpaul]

As fox suggested, even the tfl site can be wrong, and worst case you have to check with the manufacturer and get a homologation certificate which you could submit to tfl who would then waive that registration,
only problem is the manufacturers often charge; when I imported an eu car BMW wanted a couple of hundred pounds, but thankfully the vehicle type approval on foreign registration docs was eventually sufficient.
(so replacing headlights was principal expense)
Manufacturer needs you to send vin#

 

[Kenai]

@[TW]Fox perhaps you can explain this then. On the TFL site, the 2014 Volvo above is NOT compliant despite being Euro 6. On Motorway ULEZ it is telling me it is. To help you along, reg BU14 LBE

Because it's a March 2014 registered car, which is before Euro 6 was formally implemented, so it's officially categorised as Euro 5, even if it met the future Euro 6 numbers.

 

[[TW]Fox]

@[TW]Fox perhaps you can explain this then. On the TFL site, the 2014 Volvo above is NOT compliant despite being Euro 6. On Motorway ULEZ it is telling me it is. To help you along, reg BU14 LBE

I addressed this in my first reply, data quality. If the car is Euro 6 you should contact Transport for London.

 

[Yaayuh!]

This may shed some light:

If your car was registered on or after 1 September 2015 or the model was approved on or after 1 September 2014 it should meet the Euro 6 standard.

However, this is not guaranteed and to be sure you should check with your vehicle's manufacturer.

The Jaguar website explains that: "Individual vehicles already on sale that were built by, and dispatched from, the manufacturer before 1st June 2015 can continue to be sold until 1st September 2016".

This in effect means that a car sold before 1st September 2016 may still have a Euro 5 engine, hence why it is important to double check with the manufacturer to be certain.

Source: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emissions/euro-6-diesel/

 

[Noughtboy]

As fox suggested, even the tfl site can be wrong, and worst case you have to check with the manufacturer and get a homologation certificate which you could submit to tfl who would then waive that registration,
only problem is the manufacturers often charge; when I imported an eu car BMW wanted a couple of hundred pounds, but thankfully the vehicle type approval on foreign registration docs was eventually sufficient.
(so replacing headlights was principal expense)
Manufacturer needs you to send vin#

So, the question is who should I believe? TFL who at the end of the day govern the scheme or the private websites telling me what I want to hear? A serious question because someone is incorrect and to buy a car and then to find out the entire reason to purchase was based on a fallacy, well, would be annoying to the extreme

 

[[TW]Fox]

You should contact Transport for London and ask them, it's a case that the automatic checker can't easily handle.

You can do that here:

Register a vehicle to drive in London

Before you start, check if you need to register your vehicle

tfl.gov.uk

To prove your vehicle meets the ULEZ standards:​

• A letter from the vehicle manufacturer's homologation department stating the vehicle's Euro standard or a conformity certificate

If the vehicle is Euro 6 and you can demonstrate that it is, then do that.

I'm not sure why they also require a letter from the manufacturer when in most cases the Euro emissions standard is on the vehicle registration document, but there we go.

 

[Noughtboy]

You should contact Transport for London and ask them, it's a case that the automatic checker can't easily handle.

You can do that here:

Register a vehicle to drive in London

Before you start, check if you need to register your vehicle

tfl.gov.uk

If the vehicle is Euro 6 and you can demonstrate that it is, then do that.

Waiting on the phone line as I type

 

[Kenai]

If the vehicle is Euro 6 and you can demonstrate that it is, then do that.

I'm not sure why they also require a letter from the manufacturer when in most cases the Euro emissions standard is on the vehicle registration document, but there we go.

In the case of a pre Sept 2014 car (like that Volvo), the registration document is unlikely to say Euro 6 though surely?

Presumably there's also a process to get an exemption for a car that meets the requirements even if it was registered before they were ratified?

 

[[TW]Fox]

n the case of a pre Sept 2014 car (like that Volvo), the registration document is unlikely to say Euro 6 though surely?

I don't know whether it will or not but you are implying that nobody knew what Euro 6 was prior to September 2014 - these earlier cars are not simply fortunate that they meet the requirements, they were specifically designed to be Euro 6 compliant. The specifications were known ahead of time and manufacturers introduced compliant vehicles long before it was mandatory - see this press release from BMW in 2013 ahead of the launch of the updated F10:

All versions of the 5 Series are more fuel-efficient building on EU6 emissions capability that is standard far ahead of the legislative requirement of September 2014.

 

[jpaul]

Waiting on the phone line as I type

if the seller is saying it is compatible he must have some supplementary conformity documentation from volvo I think ...
and I'd be asking him for that, or, if it his theory, to disclose the vin so that you could ask volvo yourself.
Maybe TFL would tell you if there are any registration exceptions for vehicles of the type you are looking at, otherwise they will just say their checker says no.

 

[Kenai]

I don't know whether it will or not but you are implying that nobody knew what Euro 6 was prior to September 2014 - these earlier cars are not simply fortunate that they meet the requirements, they were specifically designed to be Euro 6 compliant. The specifications were known ahead of time and manufacturers introduced compliant vehicles long before it was mandatory - see this press release from BMW in 2013 ahead of the launch of the updated F10:

Not implying that nobody knew, just that you surely couldn't officially register a car as Euro6 6 months before Euro6 was formally introduced?

 

[jpaul]

just that you surely couldn't officially register a car as Euro6 6 months before Euro6 was formally introduced?

if the manufacturer certificate shows that Nox is compliant with euro6, even though car is marked euro4 on reg doc, tfl will accept that.