Why do people think OSX is so great?

Soldato
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I've been using a MBPr 13" 16GB 500GB (Haswell) for a couple months now as my main machine. I use VMware Fusion and do all my development work in that, which generally works fine. And the Mac hosts a Xamarin build host for compiling iOS apps (this is pretty much the only reason I needed to make the switch from bare metal Windows).

In that short time I've found some pretty serious flaws with this so called modern OS. In no particular order:

* The close/minimise/maximise buttons don't work in a consistent fashion across applications.

* The aforementioned buttons cannot be resized, not even as an Accessibility option, and the immutable size Apple has chosen for them is not particularly user friendly; they are incredibly small. That's the first thing my (retired) mum commented on when she had a go on my machine so I'm not just making stuff up.

* Resizing windows is more difficult than it needs to be.

* The built-in firewall was not enabled by default. Seriously Apple?

* Battery usage is appalling compared to Windows. Even my previous non-Haswell HP EliteBook had better battery life. Apparently if you use a non-Safari web browser the OS is too rubbish to schedule threads appropriately in a fashion that doesn't rinse the battery. I am led to assume that Safari contains "hacks" to work around OS design flaws but Apple has not disclosed these to the likes of Chrome?

* The Activity Monitor tool reveals that OSX is using around 5-8% of CPU time constantly. Some "kernel_task" and "WindowsServer" processes are the main culprits. And that's from a fresh boot; once given some time for the machine to settle down.

* The OSX equivalent of the "Windows notification area" does not collapse so when you have installed enough applications it just dominates your menu bar with lots of rarely used "junk" icons.

* The "British PC Keyboard" input mapping is broken. Most notably the back tick and backslash keys are not mapped to the correct symbols. Home/End keys also don't really respond normally.

* "Finder" is like using Explorer on Windows 95. It is diabolically rubbish. Simple file and folder management tasks become massive chores. To such an extent I have several times just reverted to using my Windows VM to, you know, "get **** done".

* Sometimes when I have disconnected an external monitor, all of the windows/workspaces that were left on that monitor prior to disconnection will seemingly remain on that monitor. The windows/workspaces do not show up on Mission Control. The only way to recover the lost windows/workspaces is to either reboot the OS entirely or plug the monitor back in. This has happened maybe about 4 times now.

* Sometimes you get a "multi coloured spinny orb" mouse cursor. When this is shown the machine effectively becomes unusable until the annoying orb has disappeared. I assume there is some background operation occurring that is so damn important that the system wants to stop you doing anything else. In 16-bit Windows such as 3.11 this was called the "global lock" and it was really annoying even back then. So it is surprising that a supposedly modern OS still suffers from a fundamental flaw in its design like this.

* Further to that, last night I encountered the darker more evil twin of the "multi coloured spinny orb" mouse cursor which I shall call "multi coloured non-spinny orb of death" mouse cursor. Because the machine froze hard and even after 10 minutes of waiting was still unresponsive; couldn't even move the mouse cursor and the cursor was not its animated spinny usual self. This "freeze" alone is enough to put OSX back over 15 years in my mind because I simply cannot remember having a software-induced freeze like that since like Windows ME!


Why do people hail this "OSX" as being so great? It is a piece of ******* **** dressed up to look pretty. Windows was more stable than this rubbish back in Windows 2000. It's incredibly frustrating that I have to put up with using a massively sub-par operating system just so that I can run the Xamarin iOS build host, but such is life I guess.


With all that said, and in the interests of balance, OSX does have a couple features that are superior to what I've been used to in the past...

* Virtual desktops or "workspaces" as OSX calls them and the way they tie into the touchpad for fast switching is brilliant.

* A proper Unix-like shell.

* The app ecosystem is generally a lot more minimalist and higher quality. Even the Skype app is better, it doesn't even have adverts like the Windows one!

* Self-contained app containers/packages, even if the install procedure for apps is rather odd where you have to drag an icon into a folder. How did that pass usability testing by the way?
 
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I use a MacBook Pro for work/home stuff, at least 8-10 hours a day, it's never frozen, battery life is on a par with my laptop running Windows 8.1. (i3), I much prefer the software installation method on OS X rather than running all manner of different installers on windows and I've never had problems using external monitors. It looks like half of your complaints are peculiar to you rather than OS X as a whole.
 
I use a MacBook Pro for work/home stuff, at least 8-10 hours a day, it's never frozen, battery life is on a par with my laptop running Windows 8.1. (i3), I much prefer the software installation method on OS X rather than running all manner of different installers on windows and I've never had problems using external monitors. It looks like half of your complaints are peculiar to you rather than OS X as a whole.

What web browser are you using? And how many hours battery life are we talking?

The software installation is superior (not the drag drop bit though, but the fact everything is self-contained and doesn't pollute the entire system with entrails).

I don't think "half my complaints" are particular to me at all. Maybe 1 or 2.
 
I agree with Cuchulain, I think the majority of your complaints are personal preference.

It also sounds like you might need to do a fresh OS installation if you're finding it unstable.

I have a 13" retina MBP, it gets 8-10 hours battery life with normal usage, never freezes, never beach-balls.

Everyone to their own, I love OS X and it appears you do not. Probably best to stop using it a leave it there :)
 
i have a 2009 MBP that still gets over 5 hours battery out of it, its as solid as the day it was delivered same goes for my 2009 iMac and 2010 Mac Mini only once have i had a system crash on one of these machines and i kid you not i was running Windows in bootcamp
 
It sounds like you have something dodgy going on, no way should OSX be that unstable. I agree with you in regards to the inconsistancy of close/min/max, and thus use a window snapper for maximising, and turn off the 'show minimized windows in the dock' so they always go into their 'icon'. When combined with hyperdock this makes it easy to get the window you want back (a la Windows)

Resizing windows? three finger drag at the edge. OSX is overwhelmingly better using a trackpad.

Battery usage with safari vs other browsers IS frustrating.

Finder is odd; why is enter rename? I suppose I've just got used to it.

Multi monitor support is odd and even more odd since Mavericks, I have instabilities with it, too. Sometimes merges all my windows back to one desktop, other times leaves them in another workspace. I tend to turn workspaces off and prefer to just use one.
 
On the battery life front, a friend of mine and myself both have the top end (with GPU) 15" late 2013 MBPs.

I use Safari, he runs Chrome.

My battery life is ever so slightly better as I have the 2.6 and he has the 2.3 (race to sleep), but generally we see 6-7 hours life.

I would suggest something your running is causing your issues.
 
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I get circa 6-8hr battery life on my 2013 rMBP 13 inch.

Don't think I've ever even seen the infamous beach ball! I am not a power user though.

It's crap with a standard mouse (I've not used one of those mouse with inbuilt track pad things), but works great with the laptop's trackpad.

I agree on the window resizing side of things - but I use a Windows machine for work and game play, so haven't got properly used to the Mac's interface yet - I may never do.
 
It sounds like you have something dodgy going on, no way should OSX be that unstable. I agree with you in regards to the inconsistancy of close/min/max, and thus use a window snapper for maximising, and turn off the 'show minimized windows in the dock' so they always go into their 'icon'. When combined with hyperdock this makes it easy to get the window you want back (a la Windows)

Resizing windows? three finger drag at the edge. OSX is overwhelmingly better using a trackpad.

Battery usage with safari vs other browsers IS frustrating.

Finder is odd; why is enter rename? I suppose I've just got used to it.

Multi monitor support is odd and even more odd since Mavericks, I have instabilities with it, too. Sometimes merges all my windows back to one desktop, other times leaves them in another workspace. I tend to turn workspaces off and prefer to just use one.

Thank you for that. I was beginning to think I was going nuts and being too picky.

I should probably clarify that the "multi coloured spinny orb" thing isn't every day. It's more like maybe once a week and doesn't usually last more than 5 seconds. But last night was very annoying where the whole machine froze hard whilst doing the spinny orb. I had just got home and found the machine in that state...
 
Doing development on OSX the only time when I have a problem is:
a) I have my own dodgy experimental OpenCL stuff not releasing the texture buffers
b) that the filing system caches pictures and I have a FITS viewer plug in .. the images are 11MB+ a pop.. and running automated tests produce quite a few.. the memory for cached FS thumbnails isn't released (OSX problem)..

Only other time is when apps have installed or modded configurations.. usually they're ported one where the developer think it's ok and doesn't take the hint that on apple everything tends to be in designated areas..
 
OK, keep in mind the Mac was the original desktop GUI, running on a completely unrelated architecture to IBM PCs as they were in 1984. Windows/OS2 etc all came after. Some of the atypical behaviour in your view you are used to is from Windows or modern Linux distro's that came after the Mac. To an longtime Apple user it's consistent.

In that short time I've found some pretty serious flaws with this so called modern OS. In no particular order:

* The close/minimise/maximise buttons don't work in a consistent fashion
across applications.

They work as intended. Not all developers stick to the proper Mac way.

* The aforementioned buttons cannot be resized, not even as an Accessibility option, and the immutable size Apple has chosen for them is not particularly user friendly; they are incredibly small. That's the first thing my (retired) mum commented on when she had a go on my machine so I'm not just making stuff up.

Fair point.

* Battery usage is appalling compared to Windows. Even my previous non-Haswell HP EliteBook had better battery life. Apparently if you use a non-Safari web browser the OS is too rubbish to schedule threads appropriately in a fashion that doesn't rinse the battery. I am led to assume that Safari contains "hacks" to work around OS design flaws but Apple has not disclosed these to the likes of Chrome?

I've never had an issue with battery life and get 5 to 6 hours out of the 2011 with light usage. Assuming it is Chrome, it's not Apples fault that a third party cross-platform browser is badly optimised. It's not the first time Chrome played badly with OS X, took them an age to stop it looking terrible on retina displays.

* The Activity Monitor tool reveals that OSX is using around 5-8% of CPU time constantly. Some "kernel_task" and "WindowsServer" processes are the main culprits. And that's from a fresh boot; once given some time for the machine to settle down.

They are system processes. Kernel is self explanatory. WindowServer draws and composites everything you see on the screen.

* The "British PC Keyboard" input mapping is broken. Most notably the back tick and backslash keys are not mapped to the correct symbols. Home/End keys also don't really respond normally.

Keyboard layout is fine. It's a Mac, not a Wintel PC.

* Sometimes you get a "multi coloured spinny orb" mouse cursor. When this is shown the machine effectively becomes unusable until the annoying orb has disappeared. I assume there is some background operation occurring that is so damn important that the system wants to stop you doing anything else. In 16-bit Windows such as 3.11 this was called the "global lock" and it was really annoying even back then. So it is surprising that a supposedly modern OS still suffers from a fundamental flaw in its design like this.

It's called the pinwheel or beach ball, and indicates an application is temporarily not responding to the system. 99% of the time it's an application problem.

* A proper Unix-like shell.

It is Unix.

* Self-contained app containers/packages, even if the install procedure for apps is rather odd where you have to drag an icon into a folder. How did that pass usability testing by the way?

It's always been the Mac way since the 80s. It's only in the last three/four years that applications have started using .pkg installers as an alternative.
 
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The battery life issues you're experiencing with Chrome probably aren't the fault of Chrome. Adobe Flash for OS X is an absolute disaster. It's a CPU hog and prone to crashing completely. Adobe have made no noticeable effort to improve Flash on OS X and I'm sure you can now understand why Apple were so insistent that the iPhone didn't include Flash.

I use Chrome with "click to run plug-in" enabled. I get around 8 hours battery life out of my 15" MBPr. The other great resource hogs are also Adobe products. Running Photoshop and Illustrator also kill my battery life.

It sounds like most of your other problems with OS X are simply that it does things in a different way to Windows.
 
I have to agree I don't understand the fuss that OSX receives. It has just as many niggling faults as Windows, if not more plus it looks like something from 2002 with the overload of grey. It's only the animations that mask this by making it look a bit more sophisticated.
I also agree that Finder is hopeless and why can it not maximise windows uniformly across applications?
On the flip side, it has some nice features don't get me wrong, however if this was badged as "Linux" and was devoid of the Apple logo, it would have had a far harsher press I feel.

I often hear people say that OSX "Just Works" and that Windows is unreliable and harder to use. From my experience, OSX is no easier to use, in fact in some cases it's more counter-intuitive and in terms of stability, I haven't had anything like blue screen on my Windows machine for years.
Now don't get me wrong, OSX has its place and I know lots of people prefer it, I just don't think that it is deserving of the hype.
 
The battery life issues you're experiencing with Chrome probably aren't the fault of Chrome. Adobe Flash for OS X is an absolute disaster. It's a CPU hog and prone to crashing completely. Adobe have made no noticeable effort to improve Flash on OS X and I'm sure you can now understand why Apple were so insistent that the iPhone didn't include Flash.

I use Chrome with "click to run plug-in" enabled. I get around 8 hours battery life out of my 15" MBPr. The other great resource hogs are also Adobe products. Running Photoshop and Illustrator also kill my battery life.

It sounds like most of your other problems with OS X are simply that it does things in a different way to Windows.

Yeah I've been using that FlashBlock thing too for a couple years now; so I don't think it is that.

I don't really have issue with it doing things differently from Windows. I don't know why people keep thinking that is the case. The problem I have is where it does things in a different way and for the worse. Just because "oh it's been like that since the 80s and it pre-dates all other OSes" is not a valid excuse for being ****.
 
Yeah I've been using that FlashBlock thing too for a couple years now; so I don't think it is that.

I don't really have issue with it doing things differently from Windows. I don't know why people keep thinking that is the case. The problem I have is where it does things in a different way and for the worse. Just because "oh it's been like that since the 80s and it pre-dates all other OSes" is not a valid excuse for being ****.

You do seem to have an issue with it doing things different from Windows. Most of the flaws in the OP are compared to Windows.

You think some of the ways of OS X are ****. I think it's different. We're each entitled to our opinions.

If you want it changing let Apple know : http://www.apple.com/feedback
 
You do seem to have an issue with it doing things different from Windows. Most of the flaws in the OP are compared to Windows.

You think some of the ways of OS X are ****. I think it's different. We're each entitled to our opinions.

If you want it changing let Apple know : http://www.apple.com/feedback

Are you taking the mick? No, seriously? I've pointed out flaws and/or bugs and/or usability issues and you think I'm nit picking over trivial differences between Windows and Mac?
 
I'm not taking the mick. I see things a little differently as a 20+ year Apple user. Some of the things you immediately categorised as a flaw or usability issue was a design decision. Maybe not in the last couple of years, but does that make it invalid?

OK, so there are some possible bugs in there, like your multi-monitor issue and maybe the pinwheel/beachball issues but they'll likely get ironed out with 10.9.3 or application updates.

Feel free to keep your blinkers on, I'll happily unsubscribe from your thread.
 
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My 13" Retina MBP will happily let me browse the web in Safari for 9 hours on the battery. I don't use Chrome on the Mac because it's a badly coded piece of junk, fortunately the OS publicly shames applications that are eating up resources to hopefully convince the developers to do a better job. The reason you're having issues with Chrome is because it's Chrome, not because developers aren't allowed to make apps that can efficiently use the hardware they are running on.

Google's ability to write software in general is reasonably bad - Google Drive on Windows has a bug in it that leaves a 40MB folder in Temp every time someone logs in if they didn't shut Google Drive down before logging off (who does this?), and then it sits there preventing the machine from shutting down until Windows forcefully kills it before it can delete the garbage it created at login.

A lot of your issues sound like you have faulty hardware or are just personal preference issues. Resizing windows works exactly the same in Mac OS as it does in Windows - drag from any corner or edge.

I don't really do enough in Finder to run into any of the limitations that other people seem to have with it. If I need to move large volumes of data around I will use rsync.

I think you'd have had a better response by posing your questions as questions though, rather than dropping a "OS X isn't as good as Windows" thread into the Apple forum. The keyboard layout being different to Windows is exactly that, a difference. It's not broken. You can connect a Windows keyboard if you want and use that, just pick the "British - PC" layout.

The OS X equivalent of the notification area is the notification area that can be invoked by two finger dragging in from the right of the trackpad. This is far superior to anything that Windows has. The icons next to the clock can often be removed by holding down Cmd and dragging the icon out of the menu bar. If they can't be dragged out and there is no option in the application that put them there to disable the icon then feed that back to the developer.

I am a lot more productive in OS X than I am on Windows, hence why I buy Macs.
 
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OK, so there are some possible bugs in there, like your multi-monitor issue and maybe the pinwheel/beachball issues but they'll likely get ironed out with 10.9.3 or application updates.

I'm curious if he's suffering loads of page outs… I never see beach balls unless I'm doing lots of unarchiving with thousands of files which is rare since it uses all my memory on 10.8.5.

Activity Monitor, System Memory tab.
 
I'm curious if he's suffering loads of page outs… I never see beach balls unless I'm doing lots of unarchiving with thousands of files which is rare since it uses all my memory on 10.8.5.

Activity Monitor, System Memory tab.

I did wonder that, that said the last time I saw page outs causing beach balls was when I first got this MacBook Pro. Early verions of Lion chugged on 4GB system with a mechanical drive as soon as it started paging out, which it did much earlier than Snow Lep. 8GB upgrade fixed that pretty quickly for me. Mountain Lion and the compressed memory in Mavericks have pretty much banished page outs on the 4GB systems at work.

That said, a retina has an SSD so page outs should be less noticeable?
 
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